The Right Actor vs. The Best Actor: Audition Advice from Casting Directors | Ep 40

MAX: 00:13
Welcome back to Two Unemployed Actors. I'm Max. I'm Sam. And we've got a busy show for you today. Well, I mean we we had a gap of a week, so it's been a fortnight since you've heard us, and we know you've been shouting out for more. You've missed us terribly. We hear your calls. Speaking of which, uh shout out to listeners in San Jose, California, and Liverpool, England. There we go. Wow. And everyone else who's listening, obviously. Uh don't forget to subscribe on Facebook, Insta, follow us on a YouTube channel, subscribe on your favourite podcast platform. Is that all the instructions we want to shout at our listeners? I think so.

SAM: 00:47
And listen. And actually.

MAX: 00:51
Actually listen. Have a relax. Listen up. If you've got a question, let us know. Other than that, just uh be creepy silent. Fred is creating chaos on the desk. So that's for those of you not watching on YouTube. Um he is a sausage dog and his ass is a long way back and he sometimes not in light box because he doesn't quite understand his turning circle.

SAM: 01:15
He can't do UE's, he has to do U turns five point turns or don't you?

MAX: 01:19
It's uh he's just he's a little stretched linky, aren't you?

SAM: 01:23
But very busy. He's such a snake. Alright.

MAX: 01:25
Okay, anyway, it's not about him. Sometimes. Um I uh there's been with the okay, where to start? Speak properly. It's good for podcasting. One job talk. So I had uh with the union. You do it for a living, mate. I know, right? The MEAA here in Sydney, here in Australia, uh, the union, they they've been really helpful in bringing professionals to uh members to help you with your learning. And I think they're the doing it over the internet is great, online is great. I've I've been to a few in the room, and they have some in certain states, etc., which is great. But I mean, obviously, opening up to many people is is a wonderful thing. Last week was Anusha, who's a who's a casting director here in Australia. Uh, there was a hundred people on, uh, which is great. I mean, because we wouldn't have fit in the room otherwise. And uh Noosha Zarks, who she basically used to work for Mulliners here in Australia for about 10 plus years. A big casting a big casting agency here in Australia, and uh and on her own for a while and uh has a list of credits behind her name. So fantastic to sort of get it. Has she opened her own company? Yeah, she's been on her own for about 10 years or so, I think. What's her company called now? It's her name. Oh, it's just her name because she's the cast, yeah, she's the cast director at her name. It kind of makes sense. It does, doesn't it? Yeah, whoops. Like Liz Mulliner and Mulliner's Yes. Yeah, it's very tricky.

SAM: 02:49
Yeah, hard to keep up.

MAX: 02:53
So, so essentially it was interesting to get some some tips. Uh for me though, too, a question of how do you actually reach out to find the talent? Like how do you brief to agents and all that sort of stuff? So um what what happens is she kind of negotiates with the networks early.

SAM: 03:14
Okay.

MAX: 03:14
So if it's a big network production, there's obviously a budget and they have certain names in mind, perhaps, like marquee sort of names that they want and that's that are that are crucial to sort of unlocking more finance, perhaps, or more of the budget. Um, and and so that might have a few in mind, meet with the director, the producer, and sort of have a chat about that. And maybe we'll already have a few sort of names percolating.

SAM: 03:40
Yeah.

MAX: 03:40
And then, no, Frederick, don't do that. That's my that's my Pando project. Uh, might have a few names percolating, and then from there walk away with a clear understanding of what the tone of the show is going to be, uh, which is kind of important. Yeah.

SAM: 03:55
And sort of sort of know then how to go about casting for certain So this was this was uh a Zoom call about about how they cast and how casting Yeah, it's an hour to just ask your questions to a casting director with a lot of experience. Because I re I read a similar article. I read a similar uh you did Zoom, I read an article um about Kirsty McGregor. Right. And and her story from from uh hospitality to casting agent and how she works with the director and how she works to pick the correct she told uh uh one of the uh phrases she used that was repeated was like our job is to find the right actor, not the best actor, which is which is cool.

MAX: 04:38
Who's the who's the best person to bring that character to life in the tone of the show?

SAM: 04:42
And then maybe a better actor, but they may not be as right as this other one. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

MAX: 04:46
You're right, and it brings up another point too, because uh Anusha sees a lot lots of people, lots of actors as you can appreciate, uh particularly with the TV C casting, because it's not always film television.

Speaker 2: 04:56
Yeah.

MAX: 04:57
And there might be someone who's not right for a commercial, but was great at taking with direction, etc., and then might see them again. Remember how I've told you about one I was I've been six times, you know. Uh but but she's like, but then there might be a film role coming up, and it's like, oh, I've got somebody in mind who I saw doing a TVC commercial, uh audition, didn't get the part, but hey, that person could be perfect for this role. And be and and could even be in a time when there'll be someone that might she might want to pitch who she sees as perfect but isn't quite there in the scheme of things. Yeah. Um so I think it it's really important to like obviously get in front of the casting director. And that the one way is your television commercial auditions, but she doesn't mind, like Kirsty said when when she did her Zoom, doesn't mind seeing people's submissions directly uh or through an agent. Just here's here's Sam, here's Max, here's what they've been up to, their latest project. I hope you enjoy the look, or uh, you know, send them a link to like I'll send them the interrogation. Here's my latest short film that I just finished. Uh really proud of it. Uh be happy if you wanted to have a look if you've got eight minutes spare at some stage. And uh, you know, you put your link into your IMDB or your CV or whatever and mention your agent's name. Because it often there's things that are happening right now, and they can just go, oh my god, this person's perfect for project six or seven that's on the books at the moment. Or, you know, just constantly reaching out with constructive stuff, not like have you got a job for me?

SAM: 06:22
But like Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, send them like your good stuff, don't send the shots.

MAX: 06:26
Filter, filter appropriately.

SAM: 06:28
Definitely. And yeah, like don't like Grant says, he says, you know, it's better to send them nothing than shit stuff.

MAX: 06:35
Exactly.

SAM: 06:36
And people say it's better to send them something, it's like no.

MAX: 06:38
I mean, are they gonna open the second email if the first one was a bit mmm? Yeah, and the links don't work and stuff. Someone said that. I remember going to an actor event and a producer actually said someone missed out on a role because they someone missed out on a role because they didn't the link expired. So they sent them their work and said, I'm really interested, passionate about it, love to know more, blah, blah, he's the thing. And then was going through like because we're talking months between email receipt and actual actual decision being made. Yeah. Knew the name, knew the person, but didn't know quite how their work would fit into this genre. Or this sort of deal. Yeah. Um, so when they went to click on it, it's like no opening. Well, they've got, you know, how many others to say, and just went through the and then later in a conversation with the person's agent, it's like, oh, didn't you look at blah blah blah? Thanks, Fred. Fred's just interrupted, pushed the light box on. I'm trying to do a show here, mate. It's not all about you strutting around like it's a runway.

SAM: 07:40
Believe that for it's not a catwalk.

MAX: 07:43
Seriously, thanks for the uptakes, though.

SAM: 07:44
You're a bloody dog.

MAX: 07:45
So I think that, yeah, that was really interesting. Like little details. And and we're so focused sometimes on on reading the script out loud. It's like, well, don't forget the details to bring it to life.

SAM: 07:55
I mean, I know that we transfer links do expire. I know that.

MAX: 07:58
Yes, they do.

SAM: 07:59
Um so But if you've got a Vimeo put it on a Vimeo on YouTube. I know, exactly. There are ways around it. I know.

MAX: 08:07
Like another pet hate, well, another pet hate, I should say, another casting director mentions the same pet hate. Actors who turn up and they're not prepared. By that I mean they're not all over the script, they're trying to read from it. Uh, and she can pick lazy people like that, apparently, really quickly. She's like, if you haven't made the effort, get out. Doesn't happen very often, but you know, life happens, we get that, but everyone else is here prepared. And that's really important. Like, turn up prepared. Like, if you've been gifted this 20 minutes or 10 minutes or whatever it is in front of a casting director, don't you know, know the lines off by heart so that you can be present in the moment and work your magic. Yeah. Have a few different ways, a few different takes, have some questions, like make the most of it. Because if you turn up and you're prepared, even though you might not get the role, at least they can see you as someone who can take direction, who's versatile, you can provide a few different ideas, some fresh ideas, you're you're confident with the reader, you're nice and professional to everyone, which makes sense. Because remember, we spoke about it a couple of podcasts ago. How you're gonna be someone in a in a team environment for 12 plus hours a day. You're gonna be good to work with. You've got to be somebody who's fun to work with.

SAM: 09:18
What was her last name?

MAX: 09:19
Uh Anousha Zarks.

SAM: 09:22
I've never heard of Zarks casting or anything.

MAX: 09:24
Well, it's her name's Anousha Zarks, so she's got a she's got a recommendation.

SAM: 09:28
Is it a big one here? Like what do they cast? Just commercials?

MAX: 09:31
She she works as a freelancer, so it's her. Yeah, yeah, that's what I mean. Um Anusha worked for Mulliners for for over a decade. Yes. Which gave her lots of contacts with lots of directors and lots of producers and production companies she's worked with, and then decided it's time to branch out on her own. Um, and there is Anousha who can get contacted from a director saying, Look, I've got this project, it's early days yet, but I'm writing with so and so in mind. What do you think? And the tone is, and then okay, and then that that then starts the process. Yeah. Or it's a production company with um existing project and just saying, look, you know, we want to refresh roles ABC and what what what can we do? Yeah, okay. Um and as any freelancer, you know, you've got to be quite competitive, but you've also got to be able to deliver. Um, and some of her experience, like some of her, I'll put in the in the in the social in the episode page, some of the the previous uh projects that she's cast for. Um but yeah, I mean look, it's it's just really important to be prepared when you turn up. Like things that you think, oh my god, you know, you you look forward to these opportunities, don't waste it. But I'm like, I still can't believe someone would turn up and not be anyway. I've done it before.

SAM: 10:43
Oh, what like it was a really like I regret it so much. And it was Was this years ago when you were it was a couple couple years ago. Um wasn't at it's still what like I've experienced a lot. Yeah, I've grown a lot in this in in my particular time. Um and I was reasonably younger or whatever, and um I was in the midst of busyness within the industry. So I wasn't like, oh, I didn't prepare because I was making too many coffees or whatever. Yeah, I was I was I was busy within the industry, not not an excuse, but that was my excuse, and I didn't learn the script that well. Um, but I did learn like two pages of the script in front of the casting agent in like 10 seconds. So okay and I did explain to him that it was because of other industry things.

MAX: 11:31
When did when did you receive the script? Was it like the day before sort of thing? Like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SAM: 11:35
No, no, it was yeah, I didn't have but like I can learn script that much like like that, and that's what I showed him, but I it's just obviously easier, isn't it?

MAX: 11:44
When you're off book and you've been experimenting a few different ways to bring it to life and that sort of stuff.

SAM: 11:49
And I will never go to a casting unprepared again. No, no, it's I just feel bad.

MAX: 11:53
It's a hard way to learn.

SAM: 11:54
I don't want them to remember me that way. And like I can email them, but it was ages ago. They've probably forgotten about me for now. So I don't know. Maybe.

MAX: 12:02
Maybe. Do you remember what it was for? Was it a television commercial or it was a TV show.

SAM: 12:06
Okay. It was a Nickelodeon TV show.

MAX: 12:08
Oh Nicki.

SAM: 12:09
And it was a good casting agent as well. It was uh Newman Sweeney. Yeah. Chunky pig. And yeah, so so hopefully he's forgotten about it. He probably has, to be honest. Um, but you know, I can also email him and apologise again and then just explain, which could be cool too, you know. You know, I haven't yet.

MAX: 12:29
But yeah, but I haven't forgotten I'm still I still have nightmares. I I I need you to say it's okay just so I can sleep at night.

SAM: 12:37
Yeah, you just don't want that reputation, and I'm I you know, as an actor, you don't have to be obviously constantly afraid, but don't you know you're afraid of a rep your reputation if you stuff it up or something.

MAX: 12:48
It's an important thing in a small world that is this industry, certainly in Australia. Yeah, you you want to be known as someone who turns up on the spot ready to go.

SAM: 12:56
Um that was the first audition I did that with.

MAX: 12:58
Because I remember I remember talk uh uh when we gave feet when I gave some feedback on Mark Morrissey, uh Mr. Super Agent in Australia, um, saying that some people struggle coming from you know a self-tape audition in your lounge room, sort of thing to suddenly being cast. If if if there is no short listing, if there is no further um casting offered, if you get cast straight off the self-tape, next thing you know, you're in the States and you're on a set and there's like 50 to 100 crew. Yeah, you're saying that, yeah. So the like I was saying then, you you know, it's it's another reason why you need to be practiced at being well prepared. Yeah. Because it's a huge, very two very different, extremely different environments, and there's no one helping you. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. One minute you're you're talking to the mirror or you or your mum, doing a software with your mum, as you as you do. Uh next thing you know, there's 50 crew, and you're about to make your debut when it's action, off you go. So I guess the more you're used to to being prepared 100%.

SAM: 14:02
And also the more experience you have even on small short films or small, you know, unpaid things. That's that's why those are so good. But also making contacts. You try and make contacts, especially with like people at Afters, they're the future of filmmaking here. Yeah, yeah. Filmmaking they're the future filmmakers. So if you have contacts there, that's amazing. So do student short films, you're like, oh, I'm not another student of short film. Well, those students are the future filmmakers here.

MAX: 14:25
And sometimes there's a project that do you that has a character that you haven't played before or is a great stretch or something you've been putting on. It's good for you as well, or a genre that you're really interested in.

SAM: 14:34
Yeah, add it to your show reel. Exactly. All that stuff.

MAX: 14:43
So have you been seeing your a mentor, your teacher, yes, Grant Thompson?

SAM: 14:47
Yes, so any amazing stories?

MAX: 14:49
Any huge wins?

SAM: 14:51
Um, I I'm just like so there are some scripts that are like great for me, and then there are some obviously that aren't.

MAX: 14:59
Like every actor, I'm do you mean scripts that you find more challenging?

SAM: 15:03
Yeah, of course, more challenging. And um, like it's so obviously I'm I'm getting better and better. I'm still struggling to be present in the moment. Maybe that was just last week. I was struggling like to be present within the script and within the character. I was I was and that's what's like I need to break down some walls. Like I can very easily, which is a good thing in everyday life, it's very easily to be uh very easy for me to separate true like reality from fake, which is good in a sense of like I don't care what people think about me. And if someone says something, I'm like, I know it sucks back. I know you're yeah, and if Grant's trying to make me cry by saying stuff, I'm like, you're my acting coach, Grant Thompson, and I separate that in my head even though I'm like, stop it, you're trying to do this, um you know, which isn't great for an actor, so I'm working with him to try and break down those emotional barriers. Um, but it's working, and but this particular script, I mean, fair enough, I was struggling a bit with it. It was it was a breakup scene, and I was doing it with Jess. Right. And I guess for some people that would be easier because we're an actual couple, yes, but at the same time I thought of it like here's the end point of the scene, here's the breakup.

MAX: 16:17
Right.

SAM: 16:17
This is where Jess and I are, we are we are lovers. If I did it if with another act actor, we'd be in neutral ground and it wouldn't be as much as as much traveling to get to that point for me emotionally personally, like a breakup is way beyond we've never done that, we're not feeling that. If I was with another actor, it would be more neutral ground. At the same time, we then tried that exact same script, which is amazing how versatile it was, but exact same script in a friend, friend kind of relationship, and we were friends before, and that one was probably one of the best okay we did it. Um, and obviously pulling from that's what acting is, but with like a lot of the couple scenes that Jess and I have done where they're act just couple kind of in everyday life scenes, yeah, they work really well. I think I struggled with a breakup scene with Jess.

MAX: 17:07
Did you did you do you substitute like are you substituting like an NX or something or something else that brings out that emotion to help, or you just got caught up in the fact that it's Jess?

SAM: 17:18
So I try that and that's what makes me not present. Right. So I'm I'm trying to be present, listening, looking at Jess, listening is important, and that that's I I'm getting that. Yeah, but by doing that, I'm seeing Jess, or I'm seeing her character at least. Um I think it is I think it is a bit harder, you know, if you're in such a loving relationship and you're trying to do a breakup scene, yeah, that would be h highly difficult. Um and that's but with it for me, I was explaining to Grant, I said, if I had an actor that I'd never met before here doing this scene with me, I'll be, even though don't act, just be. But I I'd be in acting mode. It would be like this is another character to me. And and yes, there's that background of oh, this has been a long-term relationship, you're now breaking up, there's all that heartache. But um I don't know. I just it was it was difficult to yell at her or get angry at her or try and hurt her. Yeah, and lucky that not you don't as an actor, you don't generally work opposite your partner. It's a unique situation, yeah, yeah, of course. And and he wanted to do that, and I think just to throw us out.

MAX: 18:28
Yeah, I mean for what works for me is sort of having a few different substitutions available to me emotionally. Like I'll I'll have it might not even be related to to the scene, to the circumstances, it might be completely different, but but but will help me show that right emotion.

SAM: 18:44
Channel them emotionally.

MAX: 18:45
Yeah, because uh talking to Anthony Brandon Wongman, I've seen him on stage many a times on you know with the Sydney Theatre Company, for example. Yeah, and you know, you're doing eight shows a week for weeks, so and he said, Yeah, I've I I might I'll have some images in the dressing room to help me get into the character and get into the moment, and then obviously there's images to do with certain key words or key moments, emotional uh points, emotional beats within certain scenes, but uh he'll might find that on a certain it might be the third time, it might be the 30th performance, but but in this particular moment that's not strong enough, it's not working for him, yeah. Okay, and then he'll visualize something else, yeah. Sure, whether it's a partner, a friend, for example, or it's a parent.

SAM: 19:28
Yeah, sure.

MAX: 19:28
Whatever helps him access that emotion that he needs to convey.

SAM: 19:33
Yeah, okay.

MAX: 19:34
Because it's got to look fresh and and and and in the moment, yeah, of course, um every time out eight times a week.

SAM: 19:41
Yeah, and I I did do that with with the actor pitch competition. I actually substituted someone in my head that I was able to bring up some anger or jealousy and all that stuff, and it works. And it worked. Maybe, maybe I just had a shitty week this time and it I just didn't feel like I could do it. And sometimes it's harder to access. Yeah.

MAX: 19:59
Other times it comes to you intuitively, and you don't even have to think about it sometimes. It's just go with the flow.

SAM: 20:04
He's helping me, and yeah, we're gonna get to a point where hopefully my emotions are just broken down, it'll be so good. Like, I'm like, make me cry, make me cry. Like I want to be able to pull from that.

MAX: 20:15
I feel like I need to recommend an Anthony Brandon Wong workshop too as well. You reckon? I I think I do. I think like remember where I came from 20 years of life experience, corporate environment, yeah, hide your emotions under multiple layers. You know, you can't cry negotiating with a customer, right? Yeah. As much as you might want to at times. But uh I you know to to to shake that off, yeah, to make it suddenly I'm more available to myself in a way as an actor. It was just this huge, it's a huge mindset change. And and in a way, I remember the moment too with the first workshop, because now I've done two, the where he really broke me down to the point where and it's a nice he because he provides this safe environment. I found it really easy to do that. Uh yeah. Safe environment emotionally. There's only six other people, whatever. And you just it was really cool. Like suddenly I just found my voice and I was just projecting the right emotion, the right, and everything was just coming together, and it just felt amazing. And I'm like, what the just happened? Where was it? Where was the the workshop? Where did it happen? Uh I mean I've done uh I've completed a workshop with him twice in different locations, and you know, all he needs is. And they're all here in Sydney, in Sydney. Yeah. He does some in other states and also online. Yeah. But uh, but look, I I think the the interesting thing is there'll be he'll get to know you before you even walk in the room, so you know, your headshot and and your C V, but also a questionnaire. So, you know, what frustrates you, what makes you feel good about X and Y, whatever, and just to get to know you in a bit more depth. So what what sort of triggers might there be, for example, and what sort of levers to to pull and push, like what Grant's doing with you at the moment? I and I and I think that that's really great. But also because you're in this intense environment, you're in this room for two days. Yeah. And you're working through a s a couple of scenes in a couple of different ways. And with your experience, you might even partner you up with someone and you'll meet and go through scene beforehand and have your best my scene moment and present that to him. And you'll put everything if you want to get your value out of it, absolutely put everything into it. I remember I met Dane several times. We went through the scene and we're like, this is great. We experimented with more physicality. We we we pulled it back, we went louder, we all that sort of stuff. We had a great time and we presented to him. And I have to say, what we finished with was so different to what we had presented to him. Yeah, yeah. But it's more to learn how you can you could uh use different uh things to different processes, if you like, to to get from A to B to get to that final moment. Um and it was just really interesting. And sometimes strong substitutions that I thought were working weren't working. He's like um so it was really and and that's and the second one he said he was happy to we actually got him to Dane and I to um direct us in a in a showreel scene, which I've never done before was really weird. But you know, when you pay someone to film and and do all that stuff for a scene for a showreel, but having an opportunity to get Anthony in there to do it for you, uh direct with you, yeah, amazing. And that's what Grant does pretty much. Yeah, exactly. So I I feel like I feel it's something to consider because I'd be interested to get your feedback too.

SAM: 23:33
Yeah on how that because it's just I'll probably wait until I can actually go do a workshop again, like I don't know, during pandemic wise.

MAX: 23:40
Yeah, he's I think they're online or something at the moment. I don't know how that works. I think I'd prefer to do it in person though. I know, I haven't having done a couple of them in person, absolutely, I think that's really where you get lots out. Yeah, but as usual, the more you do to repair, because he does and he prepares on you, so it's like so you know sort of how to pull and push. And and maybe it is, you know, you want to do it in a in a group where Jess isn't there. Just to really make sure you got what you what you want, you know, that level that neutral with everyone.

SAM: 24:07
Yeah, yeah.

MAX: 24:08
Yeah. Some food for thought. Wow.

SAM: 24:12
Wow. It's not even yeah, but even having her there is not a problem. It's it's sometimes doing a scene that's so far from us. Yeah, yeah. That's why the ones that are close to us work, obviously, like with anyone.

MAX: 24:21
Obviously, he'd put you in a scene with someone else, but but yeah, I mean it's it's yeah if you can push through that, those barriers to do extraordinary stuff that you would never think of doing in this relationship, and you can pull it off, pull off that great scene of Jess. Like that's because then when you are in a equitable environment and you're neutral, it should be even easier for you.

SAM: 24:41
Well, we're still trying this scene. We have to send him send Grant a few self-tapes before Friday again. So I think it's gonna be good. It's also very it's I've been thinking about it a lot. Like, you sit in your room and you can do that scene amazingly as far as you think. But then, like, obviously, I'm comfortable at Grant's house, but nowhere near as comfortable as I am at my own house. Yeah, and it's a space where your mindset even subconsciously goes, I am now at my acting workshop. Exactly. And you get in a mindset that you don't want to be in. Tenseness shows up on camera, everything shows up on camera.

MAX: 25:15
No, no, Grant's he's not like an intimidating guy. Like you know, well once you get to know him, but it can be lovely, but it can be. It's for the it's for the the to improve your work, like you're both there to to help you work, so it's a nice safe space, but yeah, but yeah, it it can be really intimidating. Like, and I guess that's something to get used to, to acknowledge and to use if you can, because that's gonna happen whether you're in front of a 50 crew or an audition for the first time for the stage or something, you know, like it's like yeah, but it's but not even not yeah, it's not even intimidating, it's just like the atmosphere you are in a place that you're not always in.

SAM: 25:57
Outside of your comfortable place, which is which is good to practice with, but it is that's not talking to your favourite mirror. Yeah, I just did this at home. Why is it different now? You know, yeah, yeah, exactly. It's interesting, isn't it? I get what you feel. I hate watching myself like doing it to myself though in the mirror. Like it's it's good to work on, but yeah you look at you're looking at yourself as someone else and you're like, what the f I know when you do have two moments it's creepy.

MAX: 26:22
Stop it, Max. Yeah, so you do bring back another personality, yeah.

SAM: 26:25
And then you hold up Fred in front of you, Fred.

MAX: 26:29
Fred's a good critic. Yeah. Especially with voiceovers. I think I've got a good take and he'll bark in the middle of it, and I know I'll do better. Because I have to. Well, he is hoping we get some solid auditions soon. I know I like if you if you are practicing all the time and same. I mean, how easy is it gonna be now if someone taps you on the shoulder and says, Come in for an audition? Because you're constantly working through scenes with with Grant in mind and that. Yeah, it's very helpful. Fingers crossed, only more briefs are flying around left, right, and centre. So the world is getting sort of back to normal ish.

SAM: 27:05
Yes. Jump back into it. Can't wait. I'm missing it.

MAX: 27:08
All right. Well, you've been listening to two unemployed actors. Don't forget to like, subscribe, comment, all that sort of exciting stuff. We'll be back next week. I'm Max. I'm Sam.

SAM: 27:17
Bye.

MAX: 27:17
See you guys