What Directors REALLY Want from Actors (Audition Tips & Tricks) | Ep 41

MAX: 00:01
 Welcome back to Two Unemployed Actors. I'm Max. 

SAM: 00:14
I'm Sam. 

MAX: 00:14
And we've got a great show today talking about what directors want from actors, audition tips, and Sam is going to talk about casting, auditioning. Don't forget to subscribe on Facebook, Instagram, and your favourite podcast platform. Shout out to listeners in Melbourne, LA, and Brampton, Ontario. There's one listener in Brampton, Ontario. I was looking at the stats and this came up down the bottom. Brampton, Ontario one. So this is just for you, this this moment. It doesn't show where you live, trust me. Like street address. There you are looking at the Google camera. No, no.

SAM: 00:49
 They're like, oh, this is one. Yeah. 

MAX: 00:53
I've been really impressed during the pandemic with, and there's not much to be impressed about during a pandemic, I've soon learned. No. 

SAM: 01:01
You need to explain. You can't leave it like that. 

MAX: 01:03
The local union, the Sydney or Australian Union, M EAA, the way they've sort of progressed to online has been really invaluable to everyone. Like yesterday it sort of culminated in a Q ⁇ A for an hour with Jessica Hobbs, who's a great director of Australian TV and now The Crown as well. The actor asking the questions is based in New Zealand. Jessica's in the UK. The audience is Australia, New Zealand, and it just went flawlessly. Yeah, including questions from us for the last 20 odd minutes. And and I think you know, to get access to people like that normally, in the normal way of doing things face to face, it was so much harder. And you'd end up with the you know, maybe in City head office for 50 minutes of 50 people maximum, and that's about it. So I think there's a there's a there's a opportunity to continue with this sort of you know, zooming uh online. Because it's it's zooming. Zooming. Zooming. For those of you not watching on YouTube, 

SAM: 01:59
Max has done he's added a cool dance move to his to his zooming. 

MAX: 02:03
It's the head zoom. On to onto Jessica. So we're talking about a director who's worked with Emily Watson on Apple Tree Yard. She directed uh The Crown, she came on board series three. There's like a team of directors, um, a couple of episodes of Broadchurch, very cool, and lots more. 

SAM: 02:19
Oh, she she was on it. 

MAX: 02:21
She directed it. She directed a couple of oh wow. Yes. Key things for me, what what she wants from actors, yeah, how she works with actors who have very different styles, and some audition tips as well, which is always good because you know, being up-and-coming actors are always going to ask, you know, what can help us get cast? 

SAM: 02:38
Let's hear them. 

MAX: 02:40
First of all, first of all, can you imagine shooting and the the the pandemic's happened and suddenly she's gone from shooting on set one day to running around trying to organize remote editing facilities that can connect live to different hotel rooms and so they can pain without losing you know bookable hours is um straight into productive you know editing. It's like nightmare. Um, the the limited technology knowledge I have is enough to appreciate what that would entail. Yeah, right. Um, and the same thing in the UK and the industry suffering, freelancers falling through the gaps, the the usual thing that's really affected um the Australian industry in particular. And I know the American industry as well, where you've got in in some cases where you have some significant government support financially, yeah. You're sort of falling through the cracks a lot as as freelancers and going from project to project. So it's not a happy place either. Um, I am seeing news though of more productions getting ready to start. Yes. Uh there's 18 to come to Oz. There's a whole lot for the UK. Um what have you what did you see it on? The 18 uh screen variety. I read a variety article I signed up to their newsletter, which is quite interesting. Uh every day I don't always get to that, but at the moment it's still a bit dar in the UK. I mean, like 40,000 people have died from the pandemic. Like so real. It's so real. It's so real. It's so real. It's like it's more real than it's like in Australia. It kind of like it feels weird because we're getting back to normal. Like the traffic's back to normal. Everyone's 

SAM: 04:09
Australia feels like we're coming coming out of it, but everyone's got to remember the it's just the theatre. 

MAX: 04:12
We're thinking maybe September for theatres, but even then, like how to fill it up, how to fill up a theatre with restrictions on space. I think people's love for theatre will trump. I know, but regulatory-wise, you have to have four square metres around someone. Like you're gonna end up with one-third theatres full. So I think it might be the end of the year before we can have full theatres. And as we know, like indie theatres, they need to be like 100% full to make money. Yes. Um, it's gonna be it's gonna be interesting. But anyway, anyway, on to Jessica Hobbs. So she's got a reputation as being an actor's director. So that's someone who is really good at understanding an actor's needs and being able to relate what's required to an actor, which is great. She actually said she gets some directors asking her, get this. Oh fine. Question for directors, she gets the most. How do I get the actors to do what I want them to do? Oh god. That whole question is the problem. You can't. Uh, it's like how you work with them to get the best out of them in the scene for the best of your you know, project. I love that question. That just says yeah. You're on your own, mate. 

SAM: 05:15
As actors, we need we need direction, right? If you give us complete freedom, we'll be like, uh, I don't know what we'll be chasing our tails. We won't know what to do. But you go too far, too far. It's got to be a balance. You go too far, and we're like, how the f do you want us to do that? Exactly. How what do you mean? What do you mean? You know? Well, so you need that balance. 

MAX: 05:37
Here's some tips from her on how the the expectations sort of start at the casting, really. Yeah. Like, how do you work? And and if you're polar opposite to how the lead works, or for example, and you're up and coming on a walk-on part, right? It's this is how the leads likes to work. How's that gonna fit with you? Blah blah, and you know, that's got to how it yeah, it sort of settles out. So a bit more about the process and and what's gonna happen. Sure. Um, and if you've got a more media character, oh the lead, well, hey, it's gonna be more about the tone of the film and what you think. It's more and she prefers a more one-on-one, more intimate sort of dialogue where there's no cool other people around, so they can sort of really gel and she'll pick up some ideas and 

SAM: 06:19
I've seemed to come across more directors like that with more student films. Right. Which tells me that that they're obviously being taught that as well at the institutions that they're that they're educating themselves at. I think yeah. I think it's more I mean I have no doubt there's Asian directors out there who aren't students, but I think it must be coming more of a modern thing to try and understand from the actor's point of view as well as the actor trying to understand from the director's point of view, but then you work together like a lot. There are times like where I've done some some student short films where the director will be like, What do you want out of this? I love that, but at the same time, I'm like, I don't know, tell me what I want, I'll freaking do it. Like I think it's awesome. 

MAX: 06:58
Um I think it certainly should turn up on set, and you've got you know what your character wants. Yeah, and they'll ask you a lot. You what you know what you're you're supposed to be doing, and you've got ideas, yeah, you come prepared. Yeah, Jessica would say, you come prepared with those options to bring as a more experienced actor, whereas more newer actors turn up and sort of she'll then spend time with them going through okay, well, how how are you prepared for this? How are you warming up? Don't forget the given circumstances and what your character wants emotionally. But it's great, and and also spend more time with an experienced actor on blocking. 

SAM: 07:29
You then get the opportunity to be able hopefully, it seems like with with Jessica that you you get the opportunity as an actor to then challenge the director's view a little bit if you if you disagree with a point that they make about the character that you're gonna play, you know. You're like, well, my version of the character, this is what I think. Tell me if you like it. I don't think they would do this in this scenario. I think it's just building building layers onto it. I think that's part of I think that that is part of the rehearsal process. Rehearsal process shouldn't just be going through the steps of the scene, it should be rehearsing with the director, trying to figure out what best and what is most interesting to portray your character. That's part of the process, and that's awesome. Like for not today, I got a call from from Mitch, the director, for that, and and but like a week or or two before and spoke about a character. I haven't even met him yet, and that's awesome. Like you get to then throw your ideas out there and know what they want, so then you can then fit your own view into their what they want for their film. I think there's no there's no magic to it, it's it's it's the hard work of the preparation, you're right. And you know, the the better uh projects I

MAX: 08:36
've worked on for output have been the ones where uh the director has had a conversation and we're thrashing out the character on the journey. When it comes to a rehearsal day, even with a student film, having a rehearsal day, uh and the ones that have been amazing for me are the ones where we've had time to do a rehearsal day. We can then thrash out a bit more of the bits and pieces, the nuts and bolts. And then by the time you're turning up on set, you absolutely know what the director wants. You know the director's vision for the story, the for the character in that story. You know what you think. And like you're just more prepared, you can relax a bit more by doing so much preparation, then allows you to be a bit more freer in the moment. Yeah, and then not waste as many people's time. Another change that Jessica is mentioned was sometimes when it gets to a bit of a a bit of a a flow, like you know, your line, my line, your line, my line, your line, and you've been filming all day. She might have a whisper into the other actor's ear and say, I want you to turn your back at this point in the conversation, or I want you just to get up and and and walk towards the other side of the room. Just to suddenly, when that happens, or not tell the other actor that that's yeah, yeah, yeah. So suddenly, when that happens, everyone's engaged, everyone's switched on, there's electricity in the room. Like, what? This wasn't what it was before, yeah. Exactly. And it reminds me of what Julia Garner said when she talked about um her character having a pivotable scene in Ozark. You turn in, you turn up, you know what the blocking is, you've gone through that in rehearsals. So when I step here, I should be saying this line, I know where the camera's gonna be, like you know all that stuff. So you can turn up and take it to another level, like slapping the desk, which made it into the cut, and and that was in the moment. Yeah, and and and which which then got Helen to react a bit more, and then they just kind of went up, and just by doing so much preparation in the right way at the front end, allows you to be able to be more in the moment and bring special source. 

SAM: 10:34
You then have that flexibility and that creativity to then then completely go off what you've learnt to still feel comfortable. 

MAX: 10:40
And it seems to be reinforced by what Jessica was saying. She's likes she sometimes likes to see what happens in the scenes, likes to roll with it a bit. It's like she's happy to say if someone goes, Look, I don't know what like what are we doing here? What's the got what she's happy to say, I don't know. This is new. I'm just gonna try it, let it play out. Yeah, and then we can work out exactly precisely where we want to. 

SAM: 10:58
She sounds like a dream director, gee. 

MAX: 11:00
I know, that's why the reputation of actor's director is solid. Yeah, you know, a scene can suddenly become a more important one than previously thought by her letting it evolve through a tape and then understanding how to move the cameras or how to focus a bit more, or yeah, or suddenly someone's monologue is a just a bit more edgy and important by doing it this way. Yeah, exactly. And also practical stuff, like look, there's too much light in the window. Do you mind just stepping away from the window and we do you know, like bits and pieces like that? 

SAM: 11:28
I think I think rehearsal processes, well, going back a bit on that for first screen, I think it's seen as less important as rehearsals, say for theatre. Because 80% of 90, say 90% of you know, the work that goes into a theatre show with the re is the rehearsal process, you do that for months. It's a big commitment. Yeah, unless you're on like Broadway, you then do it for months as well. It's then kind of half half. But but it's a big process. Um, and even though I think even though there's a lot less time spent on rehearsals for screen than the actual shooting, I think it's equally as important. So then you can get to set and know exactly what you're doing and feel comfortable because then now you've got all these other things, you've got cameras, you've got because then the director can, yes, be flexible with you, but also then focus on everyone who isn't there in the rehearsal room, as in the the uh cinematographer and the you know, like everyone else there. So I think that's I think it's yeah, I think it can be underrated sometimes for screen because you know it's not yeah, you're like oh rehearsal, like. 

MAX: 12:30
And generally when it is underrated, it's by people who don't have the experience, who need the rehearsal time more. Like when I lean on some of the student films I've done, again, the better ones were ones where we had time for rehearsal. Yeah, and they were thinking about camera placement, how to set up for the shot. And this sort of so when they turned up, uh they had those because that's the one thing that takes so much time when it comes to student films. It's the it's the setting up, they've got the vision. It's how do I get the technical to be able to bring that vision that's quite specific to life, and they've got more of an idea because they've been practicing it in rehearsal than if they were to turn up and it would set up for this shot. No, we'll sell and everyone's got an idea, and yeah, suddenly it just becomes a four-hour setup and and it's still not quite what they envisaged. Yeah, so even then, like a rehearsal is is is so important because you don't have the experience, you haven't you've never done that type of shot before. Exactly. Yeah. 

SAM: 13:22
Also going back quickly to Jessica's point about Jessica's point about uh lines going back and forth, maybe it's getting a bit routine and a bit tiring. Actually, I watched I watched an Aaron Sorkin kind of breakdown. Sorry, breakdown of Aaron Sorkin's writing, you know, Aaron Sorkin. I assume. I do. The newsroom, um social network, which I didn't know about. 

MAX: 13:44
Jessica Chastain, when she did a Q ⁇ A uh at a premiere of a movie in Australia, talked about working with with Aaron and how simple, you know, two handers can be like ten pages. A two a two-minute conversation between two people is like ten pages of script. 

SAM: 13:59
So I was watching Danny's breakdown. So he him, as opposed to a lot of other screenwriters, doesn't have that many action lines, you know, like character does this, not that many, mostly just dialogue, no breaks in between, just dialogue. And I'm paraphrasing here, but he says, like um, right writing like hearing my script or writing the script, it it isn't like music to my ears, it literally is music to my ears. So he writes in a way that's almost rhythmic. Like if you look at the length of each character's line, yeah, it will be like a pattern. It'll be like a rhythmic pattern, and that's how he stops it from being boring. So he so in this particular video they used an example from the social network. I don't know if you've seen it, but yeah. 

MAX: 14:42
Yeah, I have. Yeah, I remember talking to um Oh, she's in succession. My goodness. When I saw her at St. Joan, she did a QA with um an acting school here in Australia, and she was in the social network movie. Oh, okay. Um Sarah Snook. Yes, uh Sarah Snook was in the social network. Very cool. Plays your system. So Aaron Sorkin. Aaron Sorkin, let's go. 

SAM: 15:06
So yeah, so he's like so in the they used a specific scene as an example from the social network. They um the the the first scene, the opening scene, which is um like that breakup scene between Mark Zuckerberg character who's played by Jesse Eisenberg. That's it. Oh yeah, yeah. Jesse Isenberg who plays Mark Zuckerberg. Yes. So him and I don't know the other actress, but but she looks familiar. They're having this scene and she'll have a long, long bit of dialogue, and then Jesse will say a short one, and then she'll say an even shorter one, and then Jesse will say the same length one again, and then a long one, and then it so it will be like a pattern like that, which keeps it interesting and it's fast-paced. So Aaron Sorkin, he'll get through this scene in like what five minutes, but it's ten pages. 

MAX: 15:50
Remember the newsroom story I told about um Jeff Daniels and how people turn up unprepared, yes in the in the dressing room, and they're trying to learn the script to the last day, and it's an Aaron Sorkin script. Aaron Sorkin, the newsroom, and it's like they're in there literally in makeup just before trying to learn the script. Yeah. And he's like, they just don't get it because you'll be going for it, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You just have a go. And then they'll be like, great, that's great. That's probably about 60%. Let's take it up to 80%. And then it's just faster, faster. Snappy, yeah. Okay, let's take it up to 100%. And if you're not prepared, you die. Because the first AD said to Jeff, Oh, look, he's not all over the script this day, player. He's coming is asked to use the auto cue and put the lines up behind you. And that's when Jeff Daniels said, Um, I want you to write, welcome to the newsroom. That's all he had to look at when he didn't know his lines. Like, you've got to be prepared. But particularly when you you you've got to know and being prepared isn't just being off book, it's it's knowing who the director is, so you know what to expect. Jessica Chastain said that um it's it's an incredible feeling to be in the in the middle of an a scene written by Aaron Sorkin where and you're on it, you're on the dialogue, you're on everything, and there's uh intuitive decisions being made as well, and it's just happening so quickly. It's kind of like this roller coaster. Yeah. Um but when it's right, it's written spot on and everything just flows and it's perfect. But it requires a lot of preparation to get right. 

SAM: 17:14
Yeah, yeah, exactly. 

MAX: 17:15
So it's interesting. Um, so yeah, so she's happy to sort of see what happens with the scene to kind of roll with it. I think when it comes to working with different types of actors, the example she used was from The Crown, where you've got Olivia Coleman who likes to be a bit more intuitive in her decisions and and talks about the emotion, the emotion of that character in that moment. She's great, yeah. The moment and and less of the details and less of you know the set falling quiet as she walks up and there's a thousand people. It's more about the emotion within that particular uh scene. Yeah. Whereas Tobias will be like, Oh, I've the history, the detail of when I walk and I look this certain way and the camera's over there, and so he's very much centered. Um and then and then you've got um Helena Bonham Carter, who is she sounds like a squirrel. She's all over and once at one moment she had a heart attack because in the middle of the scene she kicked off her shoes, going, I feel like the character should kick not wear shoes at the moment. She's like quietly dying, going, Oh my god, we've filmed for four hours. Pulls her aside that we can't do that, but we can do this, this, you know, that sort of stuff. Like, so you've got total intuition going, I know the script inside and out. I'm think I can make these wild choices. Wait a minute, I'm happy to like experiment. So you've got the emotion, the detail, and the experiment. Very different. I love that. And they're in the production together, and that's where she'll particularly say to people in the casting process, well, you're gonna be in a lot of scenes with Livia. This is how she works. Um, as if she's gonna change how the environment works for someone who's on for three episodes when they're you know, um, but it was really interesting. So she's she's careful who casts coming in with that actor and prepares them for how the actor wants to work. So they're okay with it. And because she grew up watching and loves still today, watching lots of theatre, she's happy just to let it all run. Is it Jessica still? Yeah, yeah. Let it all play out, and then to see how then to get the best out of the actors, whether it's simply changing the blocking. So, how to get the most out of the actors can be as simple as through the through the blocking, you know, to bring it to life a bit more just by watching it flow to see how the scene sort of is clunky in places or works. Sure. So it's really interesting because she certainly has very different actors very cool in in the crown. And I think look, she came in for series three and she said each episode it's like directing a feature film, every episode. And you've got to be very careful about or very confident about your choices. You've got to know because if you're if you want to try something like that, I can have it available for you. It's there, it's done. You can see how much pressure is on the directors, like for this stuff. What what she wants actors to know, be prepared. And do you want to do that? Oh, I thought you were saying get prepared, a bit like be prepared. Here we go. Yeah, uh, do you want to play the role as the story is written, or did you hope to sort of have some other idea? Okay. Um, and and it's an opportunity to open up and sort of talk about opportunities for the character. What we touched on earlier about you know, those early conversations, so that by the before you get to rehearsals, you know where you want to be, and yeah, the director's fine with it. Hopefully, yeah. Casting. She does a lot of small theatres, loves to find people in small theatres and see what's happening. Other actors as well can refer other up-and-coming actors um and you know, casting agents, but she doesn't mind even seeing stuff sent directly to her. And and then you So did you watch was this a Zoom thing or yes? So this is uh through the MEAA an hour with Zoom. So she's in the UK, it was breakfast, and it was like 5 p.m. last night. Breakfast. Because that's important. Yep. Uh just most important side of the world. Um we touched on this earlier, directing actors experienced versus new. And this can give you some insight into how you approach as an up-and-coming actor versus one with hours under your belt. Sure. Um, she would like to, she prefers to, and this is again why she's an actor's director, sit down with a new actor and and just work through some more script analysis with them to make sure they appreciate the given circumstances, what the journey of the character, and all the stuff that she could go, yeah, that actor's gonna nail. And I know that actor's gonna turn up and just be prepared. Yeah, right. So I'll spend more time with with an up-and-coming actor, uh, particularly on blocking as well. Um because they'll just do whatever you tell them to. She's like, they'll do whatever, they'll they'll be eager to please, you know. And when you stand there, we're gonna shoot over there, the camera's over here, and you walk over there and say that, okay, okay, and they'll do exactly that. Take after take, after take. Yeah. Uh so it's more of well, why do you think the character would move there? Why? Yeah. Why would they like to bring them back into the character's view rather than doing the cause the director told them to because you don't generally move in real life if you don't have a motive here. Exactly. And it's easy for this staff. That we know to get lost when you're on set. Yeah. And the director is a massive director, and you've got A-list carry, and just walk this way, do this, do that. Yep, yep, yep. I can see myself doing it. Yeah, in a meeting. And then also more time with a new actor on set to be to make sure the prep is done, but also to help them through that journey. Yeah. Like arriving. Because experienced actors, they'll arrive and she'll know they'll arrive with lots of options. But let's get to the house that this character is supposed to live in before a lot of other people and get the actor comfortable. Maybe there's a conversation with the art department to bring a certain prop in to help them feel like it's more like home. Or you know what I mean? To get comfortable in the moment and then talk about the character in the character's home. So a little bit extra just to help an actor feel more comfortable. But again, it's the goal of getting the best performance out of everyone there. The the most experienced actor, the new actor, the actors who work very differently to one another. The choices you've made with the art department and you know, the conversations you had early on with department leads. Like it's like it's all about getting the best out of the project. And I I it really hit home. Like it's just so much gelled with me during the conversation. Yeah, right. Um really interesting stuff, really interesting stuff. I would have happily chatted away for another hour if I could, but you know, not the proper thing to do. And it's an hour meeting and there's 60 other people on the call. Yeah. I could try and ask, but I'm definitely gonna give feedback to the to the union because I'd love to see this stuff continue even in a pando free world, a pandemic free world. So are you a member of the union? Yeah, yeah, maybe I'll delete the email. First of all, make sure you're a member of the MEAA. I am and then make sure you're on the mail list, make sure you check their website regularly because this stuff is free. Yeah you put your hand up and say, yeah. Like last week it was a voiceover coach. Yeah. Uh the week before that was a casting director. Um, and this is free stuff from the comfort of my little studio desk here. Yeah, that's very good. Are you a member of Actor? Um like a proper property. Like an affiliate member of Acta. No, because you because it's expensive, not yet. But I will so that's the next step. It is expensive, but I've got to say it's it's valuable. It's really valuable. Yeah. Because you you get so much more. Like I know it's a bit difficult, a bit more difficult. You've got to have a a credit, you know, yes, conversations that sort of to be industry in. But but but when you are, like it's amazing the the the the benefit of some of the functions I've attended. Yeah, yeah, right. Actor. And no matter where you are, you know, what's your first step? The union, local union to sort of see what's going on and what's happening work-wise and and find out a bit more and opportunities to connect, and then an industry affiliation. Sure. Whether you're here or in the US or England, it's the same approach. Yeah. Because like a lot of the stuff I'm talking about on the podcast is from um these types of functions. I've learnt so much, and everyone's working in the industry at the moment, it's so relevant. Yeah, it's not not the professors or so who have taught because they were on stage once. Yeah, no, it's the how it could be. Nothing wrong with that. No. 

SAM: 25:30
Quick thing talking about rehearsal process and the importance of that. Um we were learning how to at grants, we were learning the audition process. So obviously, first step with with coronavirus, um, especially, but even just because of because it's it's um the modern world, you send a self-tape in first, and if they like you, then you come in. But when you get in there, there's a process, obviously, and and before you even start your scene, you know, you go name, age, agent, what's your experience? So you're like, yeah, Sam Foldon, 20 years old, uh, my agent is Mark Aiden, agent management, and then you do, and then it's like, what h what they'll ask you, or like uh you know, what is your experience on set or or something you don't even know what the question's gonna be, but you have to be prepared to not only be confident but interesting. And you know, you don't want to come in timid, and this is what we want to do. 

MAX: 26:20
No, you've got to be relatable because these are people that they've got to give a tick on to are gonna be working with a large group of people for a long time. 

SAM: 26:27
And it's so hard for a lot of actors, everyone and not many actors love the audition process, it's a very intimidating and nerve-wracking thing. It can be, yeah. But also you just gotta be the the the basis that I took out of it is that you need to be unapologetically yourself. You can't go in there being like, please like me, please like me, because that will come off as that. And so, you know, if you're an apologetic unap unapologetically yourself, um you've There's only one of you, so you've got a competitive advantage already. And you've got to be confident about that, and and if they like you, they like you, if they don't, they don't. And you've got to you gotta be like, I don't care that if they hate me, that's up to them. I'm gonna be unlike me and confident about it. And because it I got in there and I was all like, Hi, my name's Sam Folden, I'm 20 years old, and it feels a bit I can't even replicate it here because I'm not nervous here. But in that we were just at grants, but he set it up like an audition process, and then you get the adrenaline, it's like, I mean in the audition room, it's got this, and you put you like oh acting mode, and then that just gets you in that mindset which isn't great, and you just gotta know what you're gonna say to a lot of the questions that are asked, because you know if they're watching 300 of those, you could have a director that doesn't even see your actual audition and just sees your introduction, be like, nah, he's not right, just from the fact that you weren't confident or whatever, you know, and and so and then you've got to come in with an interesting choice for your scene as well. Of course. So there's a bunch of that, and we're learning that and we're working on that, and I am just so I come out of some of those those lessons with Grant so frustrated sometimes, which is good. I think that fuels me. 

MAX: 27:56
He's good at shaking things up, absolutely, which which you need every now and then to keep you out of the comfort zone. 

SAM: 28:00
And I think that that fuels me to get better, and that's I need that because I don't just want to, you know, like many actors, and I'm no way thinking I'm the only one, of course, but I want to get there. Yeah, I want to be one of the greats. 

MAX: 28:12
Yeah, and it's gotta and it's worth it's worth mentioning too. It's very hard. What we're talking about auditioning, you know, there's different ways too. Like at the moment, I think we're seeing a lot of television commercials opening up again, a lot of briefs coming through and sort of looking for real people, real couples, real families, real because you can shoot with everyone interacting and being close together. Um, and now a lot of briefs turning up like they used to. And and turn a TV C casting is so different, you get such little time in the room. Yeah. And you turn up and they've got they've now they've got the seats all, you know, one and a half meters away, blah blah blah. There's still uh self-tapes as much as there were in the past, uh, but there's a lot of get them in and you know, we'll go from 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. two days in the week and just see as many as we can to then make the right recommendation. Um, versus you know, for television film, like you're talking about, and then you know, for the stage where generally you've probably got a bit more time. Yeah. A bit more time to talk about, you know, your experiences in the theatre and what motivates you as an actor and all that sort of stuff, which is which is great. Yeah, exactly. These opportunities don't come along every day, which is why it's so important. You're right, Sam, to be prepared for them because you don't want to be walking out going, oh, why didn't I do this? It's like, okay, I did the best I could. I was as prepared as I could be. Yeah. Um, what's next? And it takes time to learn that. And I I've got to keep in my mind that I'm still 20 years old.

SAM: 29:32
 I've got a lot of time. I don't shouldn't rush it. And I have a habit of trying to rush to get there, and you know, you just gotta learn. 

MAX: 29:38
Look, motivation, ambition is great. Yeah, just don't rush. You harness it in the right way, yeah. Definitely. Well, that's good. Grants grunt's really having a positive effect on you. He's great. I think I've got a good system going. So you you had a casting at McGregor, did you? No, no, no. So I I have a casting coming up. So when's that? Well, well, it's self-tape. Self-tape first. So it's when when's that? When you have to send self-tape in. 

SAM: 30:07
Um this Friday. So this Friday uh it's for a uh TV series um in Byron Bay. Nice location. Uh so we've got a script learning it, just I mean, we're going to him tomorrow instead of Friday to to to record it and get it done. And just send it in. I just hope it it it I yeah, you know, I'm gonna put all the info I know. 

MAX: 30:33
Do the best you can, be as prepared. So the best way is just act like you're gonna walk in and that's the audition. Yeah. 

SAM: 30:40
And and that way you give your best, and then from that he can then take you up to another level. We picked a very hard career. But you know it has its benefits, as its challenges. Sometimes the challenges make it really good. Exactly. Does that make sense? Exactly, exactly. But the more you work at it, it's like it's like what Jessica was saying. The more prep you do, the more you can be free in the moment to make those choices that bring it all together. Okay. Also, Mark put me forward for uh uh an Xbox commercial. Hey, big one, like it would be a big one. Um, not sure if I got it. Um I don't think I did, but it would be like it was for for a swimmer, swimmer role, but like that get us like a wave pool studio and and and stunt people. Fun for the water. As long as the water's warm. 

MAX: 31:24
It would be my experience for flipper. Yeah, as long as the pool's warm. Yeah, that would have been awesome. And I'll and although the career uh although the industry's quiet-ish, there's still things happening. Yeah, yeah, it's great. It's starting to feel like certainly from a screen perspective, it's getting back to normal from the stage. It's just on pause. Yeah, unfortunately. Yeah. Pause. Pause and pause. And pause. 

SAM: 31:44
It's I think I'm I'm I'm good. Have you got anything else? 

MAX: 31:47
Uh yeah, no, I'm good. I'm good. Fred, you good? You got anything else to put in? No, no, you just look at the camera stuff. Thanks for tuning in. Another fantastic episode. Make sure you like and subscribe. I'm Max. 

SAM: 31:56
I'm Sam. 

MAX: 31:56
And two unemployed actors will be back with you next week. Bye. See