April 27, 2025
Ivana Chubbuck Acting Coach & Two Unemployed Actors - Episode 106
Send us a text Max talks about the finer details of Acting with Ivana Chubbuck, Acting Coach and Author of the book ‘The Power of the Actor’. Ivana has worked with many successful Actors over her 25 year career including Halle Berry, Charlize Theron, Brad Pitt, Al Pacino and so many more. Forming her technique after studying behavioral science, psychology and cultural anthropology. How to find the right technique when you’re starting as an Actor How to get the audience invested in your perfor...
Season 5
Actor
Acting
Audition
Selftape
LA
Castingdirector
Casting
Televisionseries
Charlize Theron
Casting Agent
Ivana Chubbuck
Anthony Brandon Wong
Baby Reindeer
Monsters Ball
Marc Forster
Travis Fimmel
Halle Berry
Acting Training
Acting Workshiop
Acting Workshop
Pamela Anderson
Jake Gyllenhaal
Christopher Walken
Al Pacino
Script Analysis
Self Taping
The Last Showgirl
Raging Bull
Devils Advocate
Max talks about the finer details of Acting with Ivana Chubbuck, Acting Coach and Author of the book ‘The Power of the Actor’. Ivana has worked with many successful Actors over her 25 year career including Halle Berry, Charlize Theron, Brad Pitt, Al Pacino and so many more.
Forming her technique after studying behavioral science, psychology and cultural anthropology.
How to find the right technique when you’re starting as an Actor
How to get the audience invested in your performance
Ivana knows what books a job having worked in Casting
How Ivana worked with Pamela Anderson on the LAST SHOWGIRL
How Christopher Walken prepares and works to constantly refine and improve a performance
Why do Directors like working with Actors who use the Chubbuck technique
Why any technique is no schortcut – you have to keep working hard and the importance of ‘raising the stakes’
The importance of Active listening
What advice at the end of Ivanas book resonates the most with Max
The book is updated to include advice on Self Tapes. Listen to Ivanas advice for Max when he struggles with self taping and what stands out to a Casting Director on a self tape
Why Directors and Writers sit in on Ivanas workshops
How Ivanas childhood helped inform her approach to developing her Acting technique
00:00 - Meet Ivana Chubbuck
05:36 - Beyond Honest and Truthful Acting
18:03 - Using Pain Proactively in Performance
31:40 - The Science Behind Emotional Storytelling
39:16 - Making Bold Character Choices
47:44 - Self-Tapes and Creating Chemistry
47:44 - Taking Judgment Out of Character Work
WEBVTT
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I have the pleasure of talking to acting coach and author of the book 'The Power of the Actor', Ivana Chubbuck.
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Ivana is the founder and director of the Ivana Chubbuck Studio and creator of the Chubbuck Technique that many actors lean on, including Halle Berry, Charlize Theron, Brad Pitt, Jake Gyllenhaal and so many more over her 35-year career.
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So join us today while we delve into the acting world according to Ivana, right here on Two Unemployed Actors.
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I just got to say you got to send me the song so I can sing this all the time in my classes.
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Because the joke, of course, is, as an emerging actor, you know, sometimes the gap between the projects are longer than the actual projects themselves.
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You know, and I guess that's the challenge staying work fit in between.
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Can I change the lyrics to 'two employed actors'?
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I like to see the positive here.
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I love it.
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So I think a nice way to delve into your 12-step acting technique, which forms the foundation of your book.
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I mean there are a number of acting techniques out there, what advice do you have for actors who are really sort of struggling to find what works for them, and how would you introduce your technique to those actors?
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I think people take too much emphasis on making honest and truthful, because just honest and truthful by itself is a couple of things, a little on the boring side, and two it's it's a little self-involved.
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And so the idea is we want to find the things that will allow us to propel us, to fuel us, into doing acts of daring emotional daring that allows us to try to overcome and win, whatever our objective is in the material.
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And we want to watch emotional heroes.
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We want to watch people who take the things that we all go through whether you've had severe realities like I've had with a very violent emotionally and physical mother growing up, and then a lot of relationships that also were not so good either, I must say myself and I think and then just life happening and all these things that we usually self-destruct with and we usually get shamed from and we usually become defeated by, and so I I feel like what we have to do is, in order to get a job, you have to invest the people that are watching, whether the the people that are watching is a casting director or director or producer or an actual audience.
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It's like you have to invest them if they're not invested, just like life.
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If you're not invested in having a relationship with that other person, they're not going to want you on their set or on their stage.
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They're going to want to be with people that they feel they have a relationship with.
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So so when actors get into this place where they say, well, just got to keep it honest and real, kind of create this honest and real bubble, what happens?
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You're kind of keeping people out and keeping people from coming in and you're just having an emotional moment for yourself and it becomes kind of very self-centered and and and also when people do that, it's hard to be around them.
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It's a little kind of off-putting.
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Just in real life, say, a real life person is.
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We all have people like that in our lives.
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They always have honest and real and truthful pain and they talk about it non-stop, and so what we want to do is stay away from those people.
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You could love them a lot, but we don't.
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We have issues with just it's so depressing to be around people that are so real and truthfully exploring their pain.
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But people we want to be around are people that want to do something about it, people who say I think I'm going to be proactive, yes, things are bad.
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Yes, I've hit bottom, but what do I do?
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How do I find a way to change that?
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How do I find a way to solve that?
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Have some resolution, find some kind of learning.
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Some way I can learn from this situation that happened.
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And how could I ultimately find catharsis?
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And so, when being proactive, which is the mark of a dynamic person, most people like to sit in their pain.
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That's just the reality.
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But what makes somebody popular and charismatic are the people who say, yes, this is happening, whatever it is.
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Or people are being saying that I can't accomplish this or that, or I got people negating my talent or your abilities, or you're too old, or you're too fat, or you're too skinny, or whatever it is.
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I tell you can't make it is that I'm going to win in spite of you and because of you, in spite of and because of you, which means that I'm on a journey, that you're creating your audience again, whatever it is, whether it's people who can hire you or people who are an audience to want to support you, like a rooting section, like in sports.
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And so I always like to use science.
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Science is a very interesting thing because, basically, we're human animals like a rooting section, like in sports, and so I always like to use science.
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Science is very interesting thing because basically we're human animals and there's just all science of why we do the things we do.
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Um, so I've studied, uh, behavioral science, psychology, the science of psychology and cultural anthropology, the the history of culture, which means that we can play things and understand why, why people have the culture that they had.
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When we want to play something from a period piece or from a particular country that we're not from, that allows us to really understand the character profoundly, and then we're watching them try to overcome something that's in their way, whether it's emotionally or physically or both, to overcome.
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So the science lesson here is that there's proof from archaeologists that there was sport being played by early man before he became upright.
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Neanderthal man was playing sport and games of contest and so.
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But that's millions of years old.
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Theater is 2,000 years old, ancient Greeks, okay, so let's do some math here.
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Okay, we have millions of years ago, coming from that place, of understanding the win-lose situation, trying to win, of understanding the win-lose situation, trying to win something, and the win-lose reality, or people who want to feel things.
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We want to engage people like a rabid sports fan.
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You do that, people will feel like they have to have you in their cast.
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It really is as simple as that.
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It's like going on a date.
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You go on a date and that person goes on and on about their exes and how awful they were.
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Do you want to go on a second date with that person?
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I call that the callback.
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You're not going to get a callback because you're depressing them.
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I love that it's a more constructive mindset.
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It really is, and I think that's great, because I know I read that Pamela Anderson says you helped her, and I love this quote 'turn messy life into interesting work'.
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And I think it seems to be a common theme that successful actors say you know their ability to tap into any pain in their life and learn.
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I'm going to do something with it as opposed to sitting in it and so I think I think people all know the reason why I feel like that my technique has, has helped so many people book really great jobs.
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I mean, it's in the bookings, right, you gotta book, yeah that's it because you can't.
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You know what I say.
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You can't take a call back to the bank absolutely, and you look at your bank account as success, especially as an emerging actor, you know.
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So yeah, absolutely 100 absolutely.
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And the thing is, but if you go in thinking, okay, yes, I feel like I've been rejected a bunch, but you need to, you need to take that information, say, the next one is mine and I'm going to figure out how to do that, how do you do that?
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You got to study more.
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You got to figure out, like, what is missing in your work, that all those no's happened because I used to be in casting.
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I was married to a producer, director, who's won so many awards in his movies and TV, and it's like I've sat in so many casting sessions.
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I know what books, and what books is people that aren't trying to do what they think is on the page.
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I call it paper pleasing.
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So if you do it, oh, they want to see this, this and that that's not what they want to see.
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They want to see this, this and that that's not what they want to see.
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They want to see your specialness, which means all your flaws, embrace them, all your neuroses, embrace them, bring them to to go after trying to overcome and win.
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Whatever the objective is in the script and and and and.
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Therefore it becomes a very specific, mannered, quirky, interesting role that nobody else is bringing to the table, but you have to do the work and all these people who think that they're just talented so they're going to show up.
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I did kind of a mush of work.
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I kind of know what my overall objective is and I'm going to go in with that.
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It's just they have people who will do the work and they will get the job and they will get the awards.
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You know, talking about Pamela, we worked through the last showgirl three times, went through every beat, every thought.
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There are many moments where she was not speaking, but we went through those scenes as deeply and as specifically as we did the scenes that had dialogue.
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And she wanted to do it three times because we always added layers and dimension.
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And layers and dimension and adding because I don't work from like method is about going back in time what's going on in your life right now?
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Because you don't know how it's going to end up.
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So you're in the raw, you're gritty and raw and you're using the stuff that you're trying to figure out in today's world.
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It might be relatable to something that happened to you early on in your life, but that's called psychology.
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But that's who we are today is accumulation of all the things that have happened.
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So, whatever's going on in your life right now that you're trying to solve, you use it so say something changes.
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You're middle of a shoot, you're on episode three and you've successfully been using something that is um been working for you, but something new has happened.
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Someone just died, or or um, or you, or you just got um a bad health, and you can't pretend that's not the most important thing that's rolling around your head.
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So I teach you how to use what's most current you know, because it makes you be that person who says what's going to happen next.
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Yeah, I love that.
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I love that and I think even in situations like, say, you know you're playing a role in the theatre and you might have certain you know objects that you're using to help at a moment, and what worked for you over the last 30 performances may not be working for you now and you've got to switch it up and be a bit flexible and also, yeah, of course, fuelled by what and informed by what's happening to you and how you're feeling, you know, in your life at that time.
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Yeah, because the most important thing is so people won't know what's going to happen next.
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Because why you don't know what's going to happen next?
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Because when actors pre-plan stuff, we know.
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I know when somebody's pre-planned stuff, because I know exactly what they're going to do next.
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So you know what I do.
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I turn the channel.
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You know what I do.
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I leave the theater because the thing is, I don't need to predict my time.
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I have so many platforms to choose from so why not pick?
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yours, when I know what you're going to do.
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I already know what you're going to do, so no surprises.
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So you have to put yourself in a place where, with all the work you got to build a very solid house before you can put the right paint and decorations in there that you can keep changing and evolving and changing and evolving your performance.
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But you got to put, keep putting in things that are going to make you.
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It's a work in progress.
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Always, um, I'm going to get a great, we're going to make you.
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It's a work in progress.
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Always, I'm going to give you a great.
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Do you want to hear a great Christopher Walken story?
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Of course, of course you do, because he's great, he's wonderful, right, please.
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And it has a longevity of career, which is what we all seek, right, the longevity, and not just that one part.
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Is that one part?
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And then that's over.
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You want longevity, a career.
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So my husband directed him in a movie and, uh, he would.
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Uh, who do?
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Had so much writing on his page, the way I teach it in the book how to write on the page.
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And so that's right there for you.
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And between and he'd sit in the set to create place, he'd put up his fourth wall.
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He'd sit in the set to create place.
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He'd put up his fourth wall, he'd sit in the stuff, create, you know, endow the place.
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I mean, he did all the work and then, in between every setup, he'd run back to his trailer and change the work that wasn't working off the work that was working.
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So it was constantly a work in progress Every setup, every setup, changing it and, uh and and, reconfiguring, and then the next scene, the same thing.
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He just did the work.
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And this it's a lot of work and it's not for the faint of heart yeah, yeah, that's right and there's.
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you know there's no shortcuts like anything.
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The more you you know acting's a lot about the doing as well.
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I know there's a lot of script analysis in in a technique and I think the more you you practice that, though on your feet, the easier it can be in those situations where something's not working, like in that example or I don't know.
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For me and as an emerging actor, you know, up and coming, you don't have the opportunity of sitting with a role for a year and rehearsing for it and all that.
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You might get the script the day before, you know, for your 50-worder and you rock up the next day.
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And I had a situation where it was just that or it was a lead, but anyway and there was a scene and it was a busy scene, lots of extras, lots going on, but essentially a two-hander.
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And the director came across after the first take and said you know what?
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It's just not, it's not working, working, um, what do you think your character should say in this situation?
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Max, like, have a think about that and we'll get going.
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We don't have the budget luxury of I'll take 20 minutes and I'll get back to you, like, let's go, um, and I think, knowing I could, I could relax in a way, because I know my character's seen objective I know, know I can trust that it fits with the overall objective.
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I know that when I'm in that space what I say is going to fit, what my character says is going to fit.
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But conversely I saw the horror on the other actor's face.
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She's looking at me going but that's not what.
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So we have to make up what we have to say, but like how do we know?
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But we've got to do the same.
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We're going to say the same thing for the next closeups and I'm like we're just going to have a conversation, it'll be fine.
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You know, meanwhile it's sound speed action.
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You know we don't have time and you can trust the process to the point where if something's not working, you can switch it, you can switch gears.
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Or if someone comes across and says, hey, let's just turn everything upside down and go, you can have that confidence to trust the process and open up and be in that moment.
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That's the whole thing about why directors love working with my people, why I have so many directors and writer-producers that I work with.
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I get 40% of the people I work with are directors and writers and that I work with I get 40% of the people I work with are directors and writers.
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And the thing is they love this way of working because it can change an actor so fast, because we have so much work being done and so much substantiation to it from the point of view of the characters on the page, to your personalization.
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So all that, the process of doing this, so you're, you're good to go, you can say, okay, could you change this so that you're being more sympathetic or empathetic, and it's like yep because I think, I think, I think um or change the scene objective yeah, it's just like you'll just translate what they want into um actor speak yeah, yeah, because I think practically the budgets are getting smaller, right, and and we don't always have the luxury luxury of doing, you know, several takes.
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I've worked on sets where you know budget's so tight even the series regulars who've been there for years, you know, could say can I try that again?
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No, moving on, moving on, moving on.
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You're lucky to get two takes and it's hard enough as it is when you've got a guestie or a 50-word role, to turn up on a set that's been moving like a freight train for decades, you know, and you've just got to catch up and go.
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It's already hard to be able to pivot and things change and we're moving very fast.
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It just so helps to jump in and enjoy the process and still enjoy the work, even though there's that extra layer of pressure.
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Well, when I worked Charlize Theron on Devils Advocate I was there with her Warner Brothers paid for me to come out, not because she wanted me to come out, so she asked if they would pay for it because she was my girl and we trusted each other.
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And so, um, the uh, Al Pacino, um, he wanted to take one scene.
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I'm just, this is kind of work ethic.
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You have to have one scene, three pages.
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You spent they spent three days breaking it down, stopping and started doing it, trying different things.
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It's like that's what makes people great.
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She is one of the hardest workers I've ever worked with and all my all the people I've created and I can't say I prayed together as a team we've created their startup.
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Because I don't take that kind of credit, because it's their work ethic, they're taking chances.
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When I say, well, you want to try this, they They'll go.
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Yeah, I remember with Jake Gyllenhaal it was like I remember the first time we met I said something.
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I just I was like I was like a little testing him.
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Just I gave him something really weird to to try and he said okay, and he did it and it was actually worked really well and I said let's just stay with that.
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We're going to break down the script of that.
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But he was willing to take chances and all the greats.
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Al Pacino once said I just make a lot of choices and I hope they work.
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I love that.
00:19:39.227 --> 00:19:41.320
I love that, and you're right about the work ethic.
00:19:41.320 --> 00:19:44.221
You're going to get more out of it the more you put in.
00:19:44.221 --> 00:19:45.557
There's no shortcuts.
00:19:45.557 --> 00:19:55.086
Like I said and I think I love this quote from Shelley's the stakes have to be high, so it was a really interesting place for me to stand on my feet and fall on my face many times.
00:19:55.086 --> 00:19:58.284
I love that quote and it raises an interesting point too.
00:19:58.284 --> 00:20:01.537
Once an actor is familiar with a process, say that your technique.
00:20:01.537 --> 00:20:05.019
How important is it to keep, you know, raising the stakes, your technique.
00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:06.181
How important is it to keep, you know, raising the stakes?
00:20:06.181 --> 00:20:10.865
It's extremely important because it's it's that's what creates drama.
00:20:10.865 --> 00:20:27.734
So if we, if we, if we have to say objectives, to get to the other side of a road, so it's a sunny day, no traffic, and I just have to get to the other side whenever I want to, or we have.
00:20:27.734 --> 00:20:29.599
It's the middle of the night, it's raining down like that sleet kind of icy rain.
00:20:29.599 --> 00:20:33.468
It's not snow yet, but it's ice and it's making it very, very slippery.
00:20:33.468 --> 00:20:42.119
There's huge trucks going really fast and it's the middle of the night and across the street your sister's going to die if you don't get there in 10 seconds.
00:20:42.119 --> 00:20:44.403
So what do you want to watch?
00:20:44.403 --> 00:20:51.250
You know, I mean, it's kind of a no-brainer to me I want to watch the one that's called Mount Everest, not a sunny day.
00:20:51.250 --> 00:20:59.509
So when you raise the stakes, the more you raise them, the more we're going to be watching you with anticipation.
00:20:59.509 --> 00:21:01.396
Isn't that great we want?
00:21:01.477 --> 00:21:07.808
We don't want people to go oh, people from places that don't care about acting technique or anything like that.
00:21:07.808 --> 00:21:12.386
They don't talk to each other and say, hey, irving, that acting's real good.
00:21:12.386 --> 00:21:22.068
Look how that person can cry on cue and then say, yeah, she's really good, because that person can just, like they pick up their cues like they're masters.
00:21:22.068 --> 00:21:23.299
They don't talk like that.
00:21:23.299 --> 00:21:24.942
They don't talk about technique.
00:21:24.942 --> 00:21:25.757
They don't care about technique.
00:21:25.757 --> 00:21:26.175
They don't talk about technique.
00:21:26.175 --> 00:21:26.636
They don't care about technique.
00:21:26.636 --> 00:21:40.348
They care if you entertain them, they care if you involve them, they care if you have a message that they believe in and they want to be supported and not feel like they're all alone in that message.
00:21:40.348 --> 00:21:48.694
If it's a message, movie, movie, you know.
00:21:48.694 --> 00:21:58.259
So it's like we're there to help our public be able to feel like they're not alone in their stories, that we are there telling their stories on the screen or on stage, for them to be able to feel like you're not alone in this.
00:21:58.440 --> 00:21:59.963
And I'm trying to solve it.
00:21:59.963 --> 00:22:01.307
Maybe so can you.
00:22:01.307 --> 00:22:03.659
And it gives people, your audiences, hope.
00:22:03.659 --> 00:22:08.675
Our job, job, our job, is to give people hope through our choices.
00:22:08.675 --> 00:22:12.484
Now we could make choices that say, oh, this is not going to work.
00:22:12.484 --> 00:22:16.181
I mean like as the, as a character, it's not going to work and I'm going to die.
00:22:16.181 --> 00:22:17.364
Or the person.
00:22:17.364 --> 00:22:28.297
I'm not going to die and I know I've just really heard because I'm in a pit full of snakes and they're all super poisonous, but I'm going to find a way to dig myself out Even if you do die.
00:22:28.297 --> 00:22:33.318
The point is that that journey before you die makes us go.
00:22:33.318 --> 00:22:37.519
We don't want you to die and the person who gives up.
00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:40.759
we go like, yeah, the person will probably die, they don't really care that much.
00:22:40.779 --> 00:22:54.003
I love that, I think, because I know at the end of the book, where you've, where you provide some advice for actors, there's a couple of pieces of advice that that really resonated with me, and one of them is the take risks, and I think that feeds into that whole.
00:22:54.003 --> 00:23:04.359
You know, let's raise the stakes, let's keep, as an actor, even in the process, keep, don't be afraid to to take risks, because I know my fear as an actor is that I'll get comfortable and it happens.
00:23:04.359 --> 00:23:12.727
I feel like I'm a bit comfortable, I've got my process, everything sort of falls into place, step one to step two, and I'm like I have to pull myself out and maybe it's time for another workshop.
00:23:12.727 --> 00:23:16.782
Um, maybe it's time to to have another look at the process.
00:23:16.782 --> 00:23:29.961
Um, because that's my fear, that I'll get comfortable at some stage and and I don't want to make these choices from a from that sort of perspective- and also the new book I.
00:23:30.061 --> 00:23:34.699
It's all upgraded to, like you know, self tapes and and the things I know that people want to see.
00:23:34.699 --> 00:23:39.140
Remember it's 20 years since the last one and so there's a lot of new information.
00:23:39.140 --> 00:23:42.654
If I know, it's going to help you book a job, so there's a whole new section.
00:23:42.654 --> 00:23:44.160
It's totally different.
00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:48.535
I mean, still tell it us, take the risk, because I don't think you got to make bold choices.
00:23:48.734 --> 00:23:57.546
Yeah it's just what you got to do, because it's like vanilla choices is vanilla Beiges color, but it's beige, you know.
00:23:57.546 --> 00:24:09.382
So we want, we want to have like, we want to take chances and and be able to make people just kind of come alive off of what you're doing and also it invigorates you, the actor.
00:24:09.382 --> 00:24:31.550
I want to, I, I, what I really like to do is give people so many people have been doing this for a long time they lose their joy of acting because it becomes so political or becomes so like, um, you know, put the camera there and you got to do this and that and what you want to do is be able to enjoy yourself and your joy will be infectious.
00:24:31.550 --> 00:24:33.498
You know people will go.
00:24:33.678 --> 00:24:38.388
This actor's choice is so enjoying the exploration.
00:24:38.388 --> 00:24:46.509
You can feel it in the work and the choices that they make that we get excited as part of your journey because we get involved and invested.
00:24:46.509 --> 00:24:55.343
And so I'm glad that you say we get too comfortable, and I'm not sure comfortable is the right word, because I don't mind being comfortable but making safe choices.
00:24:55.674 --> 00:24:57.422
Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.
00:24:57.422 --> 00:25:08.624
And I think the other point where and it's just something I keep checking just to make sure I'm making myself uncomfortable every now and then on purpose I probably could have chosen that word better too, but you know what I mean.
00:25:08.624 --> 00:25:14.548
And I think the other thing I struggle with at the moment, particularly around when it comes to enjoyment, is the self-tape.
00:25:14.548 --> 00:25:17.555
It's something that we just have to accept now it's part of the industry.
00:25:17.555 --> 00:25:29.462
I mean, australia is a lot smaller, but there's a heavy reliance now on self-tapes and I miss that being in the room and you're getting that feedback straight away, and so for me it's.
00:25:29.462 --> 00:25:33.319
It's the world of self-tapes, where you're becoming a director and everything.
00:25:33.319 --> 00:25:41.366
I think what, what advice have you got for actors who really have to push themselves a little bit extra to get what they want out of a self-tape environment?
00:25:42.738 --> 00:25:51.903
well, you just have to think in terms of, um, whoever you're reading with yeah, it's a scene you're doing and like, really put it out there.
00:25:51.903 --> 00:26:01.107
Um, there's, and the new book is a full-on chemistry exercise was an old book that was kind of dealt with in a very short, quick way.
00:26:01.107 --> 00:26:05.701
Now it's got its own chapter creating chemistry with the person that you're reading with.
00:26:05.701 --> 00:26:10.628
Even though we never see that face, we'll feel the energy of chemistry and we automatically go.
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