TWO UNEMPLOYED ACTORS – EPISODE 108 – MICHELLE DANNER ACTING COACH

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MAX

Joining me today from LA is Acting Coach, Actor and Director Michele Danner we'll be diving into some of her projects to talk filmmaking and of course, some advice on Acting.

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MAX

Welcome, Michelle. How are you?

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MICHELLE

Hi, how are you? Very well, thank you.

How do you find navigating Directing and Acting in a project

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MAX

Good, good. I've been looking forward to talking to you for a little while now, because you've just achieved so much in terms of producing and, directing films, but also with an established acting school and yourself as an actor. There's so much, so many questions. Can we start with the Italians? Because my father is Italian, and I found watching that very triggering for me with, all those cultural moments.

What was interesting for me is that you directed the project, and you're also starring in it alongside Abigail Breslin, who I love as well. How do you find navigating, directing and acting in a project?

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MICHELLE

Well, that particular project was something that I really wanted to do because it was a love letter to my mother and to my heritage, my Italian family. So, I was prepared and I have a great team. I have a wonderful creative team around me. And so I have producers that have worked with me for decades. My son, who just graduated from, you know, college a year ago, not just, and loves film.

He studied film and theater. And so he's right by my side helping. And, you know, I had a great director of photography, production designer first. And everybody that I had worked with before, costume designer. And so I found it joyful. It was a joyful experience. As a matter of fact, there was one moment when I have been rehearsing with my cast, and I said to them, I couldn't have picked a better group of actors to choose to do this with, because everybody was just so generous.

And so Matthew Daddario played my son and, Abigail Breslin, who had worked with before in a movie I did called Miranda's Victim, played my son's girlfriend, Rob Estes, who I have worked with numerous times throughout the last decades. Starting with years ago, we did a theater production here in Los Angeles of Tennessee Williams, The Rose Tattoo that ran for almost a year to sold out audiences and won a lot of awards.

And since then, we've made movies and other, you know, theater events together. Two other new actors that I hadn't worked with before, like David DeLuise, like Perrey Reeves, Olivia Luccardi, the incomparable Lainie Kazan. So I had this, this cast that that was this incredible cast that came to play and have fun. And, you know, I didn't find it at all difficult or challenging.

I know that's crazy because, you know, but we had, you know, was fairly contained. We were in a few locations, although we did do a church, and I don't know if I can ever go back to that church ever again. But we like to pray. And we told them we were a small indie movie and, and oh, these trailers, it so happened that everybody in the cast was shooting that wedding scene and the scenes in the church.

So we had like a lot of trailers and a lot of, you know, trucks and, and the priests were, you know, going, oh my God, what is this? If you're not used to it, it was right after Covid, we were able to get this church that nobody could ever get before Covid. But I think after Covid, people were more, yeah, come shoot here.

And little did they know what they were getting themselves into.

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MAX

I think it really shows when a cast and crew gel together so, so well and so easily. It translates to film. And in that sort of genre, it's it's just fantastic to see. And I guess things like the problems with, you know, trying to get access to that church, for example, I imagine, you know, when you're helming a project like that, and you're wearing many hats as you do, Michelle, you know, you're constantly having to make a thousand decisions a day, and there are lots of problems.

And it how do you find you know, you're leaning on those you trust a lot to, to help.

00:04:26:19 - 00:04:46:23

MICHELLE

I'm on top of everything. And I want to know everything. Now, I know my sisters work with me and they help me and they shield me from certain things. But ultimately, if I hear them talking and whispering in the background, I always find out what's going on. And I'm the kind of person that really needs to know. You can't keep me in the dark.

I am also a good problem solver. So come tell me what the problem is and I'll work it out.

Movie Mirandas Victim and filming during Covid

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MAX

You really are leading quite a big team, so. And it's and it's worked out well, but it's and it's not the first project you developed. You directed, you touched on Miranda's victim, a fantastic film. I mean, just looking at the cast. Abigail Breslin, Luke Wilson, Ryan Phillipe. Donald Sutherland, and Andy Garcia, I mean, what quite a cast you assembled. Did you always think you were going to get a cast like that?

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MICHELLE

Well, I, I thought it was an important story. A story that had never been told about how the Miranda rights had come about. And the characters were historical characters. This is a case, you know, a legal case that happened and really informed how people were getting arrested from then on. And so I thought that, you know, because it defined our history, I thought it was important to have, well known people be in it.

And they were also, you know, those big cast. It was a movie that we shot on film, in 2000. I think it was released in a couple of years ago, in 2023. I shot it in 2022. Right. Still, you know, when people were doing precautions with Covid, with the masks and everything, as a matter of fact, because it was a period piece and we were shooting in this authentic police station and this authentic courthouse of the 60s, which they tore down after we finished shooting there.

So we had very authentic locations. I was wearing this clear mask because you know, the Covid protocol, because I wanted, you know, everybody to see my mouth when I was speaking and because some people were smoking cigarettes not, you know, real cigarettes but prop cigarettes. And then there was a smoke machine. Oh, that smoke got underneath the mask and created, you know, huge infection, like a really sick.

And I would urgent care. At lunch the doctor was like, you have to check yourself into the hospital. It's going to penetrate bloodstream. And I'm like, oh, something happens. We shut down. I can't afford that. So anyway, she called me and said, two hours later, are you going to the hospital? I'm like, yes, I'm going after I finish shooting.

So I went and, you know, they were like talking about surgery and stuff. But then they worked out. They just gave me steroids, which made me wonderfully aggressive the day after.

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MAX

I'm sure the cast thanked you for that. And the crew.

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MICHELLE

Well, my director of photography was like, My God, what's up with that? Was very pure life on steroids for the rest of the shoot.

Very loud and very fast. And so that was a great experience that I had. It was a big budget movie. And people, you know, received it very well. Right after that, I shot the Italians. After that, I went to Italy and shot a movie called Under the Stars, a romantic comedy with Andy Garcia, with Toni Collette, with Alex Pettyfer, with Eddie Dominici.

That movie is going to come out, I believe, in the next month. And then after that, I'm currently shooting a movie as we speak. I am not shooting today, obviously, because I'm talking to you, but I am shooting another romantic comedy, which I love the genre because it's light and fun, and I think we need to watch some of these movies to just escape.

And it's called Starstruck, and it's a romantic comedy with a unique angle on astrology, and I have some wonderful actors in it. Matthew Daddario, who played my son in The Italians, is in it. The actress called Alice Eve, wonderful actress. They have great chemistry together, and I believe we're going to have now as we go back to shoot Billy Zane and Lauren Tom.

And so I'm very excited about it.

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MAX

That's fantastic. I mean, it's it sounds like you just going from one project to the next and working with amazing casts, amazing.

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MICHELLE

And. Yeah. And I have to say so Josh Bowman, who played Abigail Breslin husband in Miranda's Victim, who was extraordinary, also has come to be in this movie that I'm shooting right now. Starstruck and robust is who play my husband in the Italians and is also an under the stars also has a part in this movie. So I like working all this to say that I do like working with the same actors over and over again and with new actors.

But what's great about working with the actors that you know well and that you love is that you've developed a shorthand of how to communicate. And so it's helpful, especially because at some point during the course of the day when you shoot a movie, you get in trouble. There is one point there where everybody gets slow and it happens in different parts of the day.

Could happen after lunch, it could happen before lunch. But at some point everybody moves like molasses and nothing gets done. And so, you know, it helps that you have this relationship with people that you've worked with before. So you can, you know, kick it back into gear, do you?

Working with experienced Actors and emerging talent

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MAX

That's a really interesting point, I think, because you've also got a mix of, you know, emerging talent as much as a very talented professional and experienced actors. Do you do you find yourself, even with your breadth of experience, still learning new things when you direct professional actors of such calibre as, you know, Toni Collette and Andy Garcia?

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MICHELLE

Well, Toni Collette, I just had a front seat and Andy Garcia as well to how brilliant they were and just watching them, and I knew I was getting gold when I was doing it, when I was shooting, and then afterwards when I started to watch the takes and, you know, watch the dailies, you know, it confirmed it still in the little subtleties.

It's always in those little details. And you go, look how incredible this is. But I love acting, I love actors, I love working with actors and telling stories because of course, storytelling is at the core of everything that we do.

ACTING COACHING

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MAX

I mean, you've been directing and, well, certainly coaching actors for well over 30 years. And no doubt you've you've learned a few things in that time as well. Has your perception changed in how you sort of approach, you know, coaching actors from when you first started as an acting coach to now having, you know, directed them on set?

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MICHELLE

Well, I'm sure that I have. I've always worked in a very intuitive way, and I've always had a vast knowledge of acting of acting method. It's a lot different philosophies. I studied with Stella Adler. I studied with all the hugging, I studied the countless teachers, and I was always fascinated about technique, acting, technique, what creates, you know, a great acting, great actor, a great acting moment.

And so I've always analysed that in depth. And so, you know, certainly when you work with, you know, Toni Collette and Andy and you watch, you know, their takes and you watch them try things and, and, and also the people, you know, actors want feedback. They, they don't just want to know that they're brilliant. Even if they are brilliant.

They want to know, you know, what can I do that is different? I definitely know what I want when it comes to that, and I feel like I have found a balance throughout the years, more so as I've, you know, grown older and have worked more, letting them have free rein, which means that they're allowed to try things fall on their face, risk and guide them through a performance, something that, you know, I feel illuminates the story, the writing.

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MAX

I love the idea of giving them some free rein. It sort of it really underlines the trust you have with the actors to allow them to explore a little bit, and perhaps even surprise you with some moments that you hadn't have imagined and hadn't pictured.

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MICHELLE

Absolutely, that there's always that surprise and you learn all the time, every single day.

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MAX

I think two of my favourite actors, you know, Toni Collette, Andy Garcia, I mean, just amazing, the sort of actors where I'll just I will watch them, whatever they're in. I'll just watch. I don't even need to know what it's about, you know. So I think and and Under the Stars being set in Italy, I just think that's going to be fantastic.

I'm really looking forward to that. How was it for filming? Because. Is that your first time filming, directing a movie in Italy?

Filming in Italy

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MICHELLE

Yes, it was, and that was one of the reasons why I wanted to do it. It, because, yeah, I worked on the script quite a lot. I wanted to shoot in Italy. My mother was born in Italy. She was Italian. She's born in Milano. And my whole childhood. God, I heard Puglia. Puglia is so beautiful. Julia and I had never been to Puglia.

Yeah. So when they offered me this movie to direct, I was like, shooting in Julia. I'm like, I'm there. I didn't care what it was. I was just there. And I had a great time shooting it. It was wonderful to be in Italy. During my days off. I went to the supermarket, I bought food, I cooked, did, you know, went exploring.

You went swimming in the ocean. It was, definitely a treat.

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MAX

I can't believe that. So that's you? That was your first time going to Puglia? To direct?

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MICHELLE

To direct? Yes. I had not directed in Europe. I did something in Istanbul once. Okay. But I have a dream to go to Paris to direct something. And there there's different parts of the world there are so beautiful that I love to go to.

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MAX

I think that's amazing that that that's your heritage. And it's also, you know, that was your first visit to to the region. Yeah. That's fantastic. Were there any sort of surprises, you know, comparing to your experience directing in in the States?

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MICHELLE

Well, yes, I was concerned at first because, you know, in the States you shoot 12 hours and in Europe you shoot ten hours. And I thought to myself, wow, you know, how is that going to happen? But it was fantastic. You're less tired. You still can get it done. I mean, they're on to something.

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MAX

Then you're going to have time for a sister in Puglia. Explore the food in the region.

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MICHELLE

Exactly.

Producing

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MAX

So if we can just touch a bit on the producing side, especially for these larger films, we've got such a great, accomplished cast. Do you find yourself going to, a casting director early on in the project to help unlock more funding, or is that just like, oh, now you work with Nancy Bishop, who amazing casting director, over 100 movies on a regime, and they're all amazing.

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MICHELLE

Was just going to say that, yes, I work closely with Nancy, but, you know, she's in the UK, I'm in LA or sometimes in New York, and she wakes up early. So I start texting with her at midnight, and I wake up whenever I've tried. And I don't always do it. I try to not do it because it really chops up my sleep.

But so many nights I wake up and I go to the bathroom and I check my phone. And you know, this actor past this actor said, yes, this actor passed. So there was, there's a lot of that. And so my heart sinks or I'm joyful. Either way, I can't go back to sleep. So I, I stopped doing that because I said, you know, you just going to sleep.

But I love Nancy and I love working with her. And we're working on another project right now together.

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MAX

I think. So do you find yourself, going to her early on in a project saying, you know, this is the, the genre, this is this scope, this is the this is the logline. And here's how I see, you know, and and starting to to hunt for the leads then. Or is it once you've got a bit of a way into the project and, and a Polish script and then you can start.

00:16:17:07 - 00:16:41:19

MICHELLE

Yeah. I mean, you need a polished script, you need the script without the script, even if you have the relationships. I mean, people would have to really love you to sign on for something that's just not up to par. The script has to be there and therefore, you know, and you have to put the time, you have to put the work in so that you really feel good about it.

Whatever the process is with that script, whether it's doing draft after draft or even getting a group of actors together and hearing it out loud to see how it reads, whatever the process is, to get it to the place where people can't say no to you because it's that good.

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MAX

Before we go into a bit more around the acting coaching world, is it true that your your father used to have, you know, famous artists over to the house when you were growing up? Is that is that sort of what influenced you?

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MICHELLE

Yeah, it's my father was a very well known producer as my actor with the Mars Agency, asked him to be the president of the Williams in Paris, in France, in the 60s. And, he represented a lot of, you know, big stars. And I remember I was daddy's little girl. I would go to, you know, play in his office under his desk and was privy to so many international stars.

American stars come and talk about their careers, and they would come to the House. And, you know, it was a colorful group of artists. They would play the piano, sing songs, go into the kitchen, pull out everything they could find and make a big, big pair. Yeah. I remember, you know, I was, I traveled a lot as a child.

My dad, brought me with him. A lot of the time, and, I was just really close to my parents, and my mother was singing as well, and she was an entertainer. So that's the the family that I grew up in. It was very rich with the arts. And I studied at a young age acting in Paris.

I always went to museums. It seemed like every Sunday we had guests. We took them to the Palace of Versailles. I had, you know, a wonderful childhood that was very rich in terms of the arts.

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MAX

It feels like you were just destined to be, working in the industry. Really? With that upbringing.

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MICHELLE

Well, I really think that I have signed on, and I'm passionate about telling stories that I feel, you know, people really need to, to see.

00:18:51:20 - 00:19:06:13

MAX

And. And did you always imagine yourself, you know, directing a movie and bringing to bringing stories to life in that way? Or were you, Look, I want to I want to perform. I want to be an actor. What what sort of led you into the industry?

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MICHELLE

Well, I think everything was a stepping stone. I didn't particularly see myself directing it. I just fell into it organically. I didn't see myself teaching either. I mean, I think I was first attracted to acting and, and then, which is. But again, the storytelling aspect of this is really what drove me whether I was acting or directing or producing or teaching, whatever it is that I do, it's because storytelling is something that I enormously, respect and have a passion for.

Acting Coaching

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MAX

The acting school that you established in Los Angeles is the Los Angeles Acting Conservatory.

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MICHELLE

Yes. There's two schools that we have in Culver City, that I'm very proud of because it brings together a community of actors that want to grow and learn. And so the Los Angeles Acting Conservatory is a conservatory program. And the Michelle that are acting studio are when people just want to take just a chunk of classes, but they, you know, they don't want to do the whole the whole program.

We have one and two year programs. And if you drive, I had a mural artist, you know, create, something, in the, in the entrance, you know, above, which is if you're driving from west to east, it says you can't spell art without heart. You can't spell heart without art. Oh, my God, you can't make art without heart on the other side of it.

So, this I think, really embodies the philosophy of our school when I make movies, which, you know, like I said, I'm in the process of doing now, all the students come on set. So whether they get cast in front of the camera, behind the camera, they learn. And that's one of the things that I wish when I was in my 20s, that I had done more of it, had the opportunity to go on set and understand how it really works.

00:21:06:07 - 00:21:27:12

MAX

That is a fantastic point. And I think, you know, as an emerging actor, that is such a fantastic opportunity to be able to have that real experience. I mean, you can you can workshop to death. You can, you can, you know, practice your monologues, you can do all the courses. But but to actually be on set and watch it all come together, I think that's a master class right there.

00:21:27:14 - 00:21:39:00

MICHELLE

Yeah, that's and there's nothing that can that is as good as like I even told my son, yeah, you went to USC and that was great. But being on set, you got a front seat to what it's really like to make a movie.

00:21:39:06 - 00:22:00:01

MAX

I love that, and I think that's a great life. It's not just, you know, you know, just an acting coach. Acting teacher with acting school, it's actually busy working in the industry that you're teaching in. I think that's great. Credibility and really shows how much you're willing to help emerging actors, learn and get experience.

That's fantastic. From an acting coach perspective, too. I mean, you've worked with the likes of Christian Slater and Salma Hayek. Gerard Butler, I mean, I'm like this. It's such a Chris Rock. I mean, it's such an amazing roll call of of professional actors. I'm still coming to terms with the fact that you're so busy bringing projects to life as a director and producer, but also with the two acting schools, and then you're acting coaching as well.

How do you manage wearing so many hats?

00:22:27:19 - 00:22:43:15

MICHELLE

Everybody always asks me that. I always say that I well, I help first of all, but I make very good lists. I'm very, organized in terms of what I need to achieve. And, that's how I get it done.

00:22:43:16 - 00:23:04:18

MAX

It almost looks daunting to the uninitiated, but I think that's fantastic. I mean, to be busy in this industry is just, you know, two days straight up. But, but I think how do you who so can actors, professional actors of, of, you know, A-listers when they come to you to work through a particular role? They come to you with I mentioned the script and I put some work in.

How do you approach, helping them. I guess each situation might be a bit unique. Or do you have the same approach for everyone?

00:23:12:11 - 00:23:46:05

MICHELLE

Oh, no. No, you have to be very intuitive with people and it's not, you know, come to the middle and it's all the same. What I'm going to teach you, you have to really customize, you know, and then really work with the uniqueness of each artist. You know, I mean, I love the acting school. Every time I go there, every time I teach a class and I'm about to teach a couple of master classes coming up, the Golden Box, which lays out all the tools that you use when you book a part in a movie or a TV show, create a character and make choices.

I, I mean, I love teaching. The truth is that I love teaching. I used to teach before, a lot more. I used to teach, you know, four nights a week. I used to teach nonstop, and, that I had kids and that I started to direct, and I never stopped teaching. And I don't think that I ever will, but, you know, I have a great faculty of teachers, which is the reason why I can go and shoot a movie, because, of this faculty that I have.

But, I really enjoy. It's it's something that you feel a responsibility to. You want to pass it down to the next generation, you know, it's a it's a mandate. And, you know, I'm always happy to do it. I love I was just in Australia not too long ago. I was teaching in Brisbane.

00:24:33:12 - 00:24:35:22

MAX

Which yeah, great part of the world loved it.

00:24:35:22 - 00:25:00:09

MICHELLE

I had a great class of Australian actors and what am I going next? I think I have to look at the schedule, but, you know, when I go to Paris, I teach in French. When I go to South America, to Mexico, to Central America, I teach and in Spanish. When I go to Italy, I teach in Italian, 65 languages.

Yeah. Then if I go, if I've been to Russia, I taught in Moscow. I had an interpreter there. That was fun, too. I don't know if I'll be going anytime soon, but, yeah, that was an experience all in itself.

Industry Update

00:25:15:11 - 00:25:37:01

MAX

And I guess, taking a step back and just looking at the industry at the moment, I know certainly in Australia look much smaller industry. And for actors, sometimes you have to go to New York or London to be able to work consistently. But what I'm hearing is, you know, the old system in the United States of, you know, a huge pilot season, it's kind of changed.

It's almost gone. And the growing segment at the moment is very close. Is that something you're you're seeing or you just focused on on film directing? So you're not really exposed to that?

00:25:49:23 - 00:26:15:07

MICHELLE

No, I mean, verticals are a trend. I'm and direct that I direct movies, you know, I direct feature films, of all budgets, from bigger budgets to smaller budgets. And I love the intimacy of a little indie movie. I, I'm prepping to shoot something next year, which will be, a six episode, you know, season one of something we're developing.

But, you know, in Los Angeles is a very vibrant city. I mean, yes, shooting has, you know, slowed down. But it's picking up and so I have a couple of projects I'm going to shoot in California. I, I love Los Angeles, I love Hollywood, some of it. It's the weather, of course. Some of it is.

The fact that you feel like anything is possible. There's just that kind of an energy here. And I also love New York. You know, I'm working on another project, you know, Broadway show. I, I love stretching myself, throughout the different, you know, mediums and genres. I don't particularly have favourite genre. Those are probably some things that I won't they'll never, you know, direct like a western, but who knows?

You never know. I like to be challenged. I like to try new things. I like to tell stories that have never been told before. That's what really attracts me to storytelling.

Artificial intelligence

00:27:15:01 - 00:27:49:10

MAX

I love that, and I get the impression, yeah, you don't like to get bored. You got to constantly be busy and pushing yourself in different areas to keep interested and focused and, that, that's fantastic. The other thing I'd like to mention, and if you don't want to talk about artificial intelligence, is such, like for me, I feel like maybe you can be a bit conflicted on it because from one perspective, as a producer, perhaps you can say and, you know, driving projects forward and leading projects as you do, perhaps you can see a place for AI to assist in some elements of pre or post-production in order to reduce costs or ensure more money gets to the screen. But then on the other hand, you have like this week, you know, Tilly Norwood and I actress, you know, with Emily Blunt saying it's really, really scary and an AI talent company seeking representation for Tilly, saying saying they wanted to be the next Natalie Portman or Scarlett Johansson, which does make it really, really scary for me.

So that's the conflict I see with AI in the industry at the moment. I'm really interested in your thoughts because of your breadth of experience.

00:28:17:08 - 00:28:38:06

MICHELLE

I don't know why it doesn't scare me. I think that, for instance, when it comes to I always know if somebody presents me a script that they use the AI. I'm not saying that it could be a good tool to help you to develop something, but ultimately I always can tell if somebody used AI to write something, it feels robotic to me.

It feels devoid of humanity. And I think that, I haven't seen this. Actresses AI actress, but I think that ultimately people knowing that it is AI and it's not real, it's not a real person. I think, you know, it's it's not it's not human. And therefore, you know, it's, what's the word I'm looking for? It's a, you know, it's like a new thing, like, I just don't see how.

00:29:08:07 - 00:29:10:11

MAX

More of a novelty, perhaps at the moment.

00:29:10:13 - 00:29:28:08

MICHELLE

Novelty. That's the word I was like, I don't see how AI actors are going to replace the real thing. You know, the real thing. Yeah. I just I don't see it. I think there'll be a lot of, you know, speculation about a lot of worry about it, a lot of anger about it. There'll be projects people are going to.

They're doing it now. People are using, you know, AI actors and creating. And it's looking polished but polished and robotic, not polished in human. And for me, I mean, I'm sorry, even when I go to see a movie and I see a lot of visual effects and a lot of special effects that can only grab me for so long, I want to be moved by something.

If I go to see Phantom of the opera, all is good, you know, with the chandelier falling. But if I am not moved when he takes off the mask, then it doesn't work. And I cannot see how an AI project is really going to do that for audiences. I think that, you know, it's part of this technology that's making people disconnected and, and cold and not you know, but I don't see nothing is going to replace a human actor.

But yes, it is scary that people, you know, feel that they can make money doing it and always be an audience to watch it.

00:30:34:01 - 00:30:59:11

MAX

Yeah. I think whenever there's change in this industry, you know, there's there's some that that get a bit nervous about change. I mean we'll look at when but when streaming became a thing, you know, there were directors, very famous directors going, you know, movies made for streaming shouldn't even be, up for Oscars. You know, people just didn't want to move, but, so, so I can understand how some people, when they see technology, will see a change coming in.

The industry can get very nervous. It's fair to say that, you know, there's an increase in IoT technology being deployed. There's there's a smaller pilot cities and a growing trend of verticals. That's kind of feels like the state at the moment. No, no. You're living in a world where you've been very successful at directing film. But what would your advice be to your acting students who are about to graduate now and head out into the industry?

And and would that advice change from what you would have given them, you know, 20 years ago?

00:31:27:22 - 00:31:54:19

MICHELLE

No, I think it's the same advice. I think you never stop growing as an artist. Never stop learning because you're you're never going to stop learning and be proactive. Not everybody can, you know, write or direct or produce, some people are good at connecting people together, creating, you know, community. But everything would lead you down the road of taking action and being proactive.

I think that for an artist to sit home, for an actor to wave, you know, it's that old cliche that says, you know, you can't wait for the phone to ring. I remember coaching some big stars that told me that the phone does not ring for them. Now, you know, recently we lost an icon, Robert Redford, and I remember reading a whole article that when he was trying to get ordinary people made, he was having a hard time raising the financing for that movie.

And I thought to myself, oh my God. I mean, I had to reread it like several times. I said, really, Robert Redford was having a hard time raising money for a movie he wanted to make. But yeah, that that's the fact. It's hard. And I know a lot of very known actors, stars that are having a hard time, you know, getting it off the ground.

So that being said, I think that, this idea of not sitting and waiting for somebody to pick you, but to pick yourself. And at the end of the day, Robert Redford did get ordinary people made, and he created Sundance, and he did many, many more things. You have to get off your burden and you have to take action and not wait for somebody else to somebody else to say yes to you.

You have to say yes to yourself. And they'll always be that Wonder child, you know, looking to, you know, discover things.

00:33:26:10 - 00:33:41:16

MAX

I think that's fantastic. I couldn't agree more, that, you know, you need to stay motivated and stay busy, and, you have to get out there and make things happen. Even if it is taking a lead in a student film, you know, to to stay work, fit in and getting more experience in front of the camera.

00:33:41:17 - 00:33:58:01

MICHELLE

I was going to see one last thing. The director of Anora he did that with his phone and some lenses and it was nominated in the Oscars. Anybody can make something happen. You just have to have the will, the passion to want to do it.

00:33:58:03 - 00:34:17:22

MAX

I love that. That's a beautiful note to end on. Michelle, thank you so much for, for giving us your time. We've covered so many topics. And I just think, yeah, congratulations on the success over the years. And for many more of your projects and you and your class and for giving us some insights today.

00:34:17:24 - 00:34:24:11

MICHELLE

Thank you so much for having me. It was a pleasure.