How to Avoid Low-Budget Acting Scams & Project Rate Realities | Ep 62

MAX: 00:11
Hello and welcome back to Two Unemployed Actors. I'm Max Belmonte, and we are without Sam today because he is on set. That's a decent excuse. We'll let him have a pass this week. Uh I can't believe it's it's year three of the podcast, episode 62. I can't believe we've made it. It feels like it does feel like three years. But I hope you've enjoyed the journey. All the tips and tricks, the interviews, uh fun and games that we've had along the way. Uh I hope you've learnt as much, if not hopefully more, than what Sam and I have. Um it's easier and certainly cheaper to learn from our mistakes, anyway. Um and uh kicking off the year in style, it's been busy for us in Sydney uh last year. I know I had my busiest year out of the three years I've been back into the acting world from corporate life. Um lots of corporate jobs, uh on air in a television commercial and uh some scripted drama as well. So it was a really productive year of keeping work fit on the acting front. While voiceovers uh well increased with the pandemic, uh it's meant that there's lots of companies going to working remotely and they need more e-learning, induction videos, um, webinars, all that sort of crazy stuff to make corporates look good. And uh kicking off the year, busy. Uh I had to push back on a job actually that was falling between New Year's and Christmas Day. So that that that weirdly sort of time we expect everyone to just be um spending time alone, home, alone, good god, spending time with family and friends and enjoying Christmas and a bit of a break, but um no, it was uh it was trying to they were trying to book me in with a job on a sound stage in Sydney, and I just I couldn't make it, so they pushed it back till next week. And uh another job tomorrow on set, which should be fun, corporate job. And interestingly too, um some nothing's changed when it comes to filtering online jobs. 

I know I had one come through on the right fit, because I'm on I'm on Star Now in Australia, which which I've got a lot of work from, actually, it's been quite nice to me, and the right fit as well. They're different in in a couple of respects. Star Now just there's a whole lot of shit, whole lot of free stuff, some paid work, and you really have to filter. You're i I've I've filtered it already to be only showing me paid work, and within that, there's probably one in ten that I would apply for. And then the right fit is kind of filtered quite well. So by the time I bring up what's right for me, I'm probably applying for maybe one in five. Um, and I've only been going for uh a couple of months on the right fit, but it's already given me a couple of jobs, so I can't complain. And the third job came up, this opportunity came up uh last week for a sports shoot, and being as uncoordinate as I am running around, you know, throwing balls and catching that sort of stuff, I thought, well, hey, you know, my friends would say, Don't do it, Max, just don't. But of course, every actor would say, Yeah, I'm great at that. I can catch with my left and right hands, no dramas, amazing. And uh so of course I said, Yeah, I'm in it. Anyway, they came back and said, Look, our sample size for the shoe, so it's obviously for a sporting shoe, is 10, which is three sizes smaller than my feet, so that's already adding to my uh uncoordination. I'm thinking, okay, well, I've I've fit into a size 10 before. 

I was on a dressed as a construction worker for some drama, uh, and yeah, it hurt because those shoes still cap rigid sides, like there's no give. But if I can fit into those, um I can fit into some sneakers, so I'm like, yeah, no dramas. Then they said uh they came back and said, Look, um, thanks for letting us know what your rate is. Um great that you can fit in the shoe, but in relation to the shoe size, we're gonna do some some there'll be some video elements to the chute. So are you okay running and jumping and stuff in that size? Like, whoa, hang on a minute. This has gone from in-store point of sale sort of stuff to you know, posters and that and a bit of online to video elements. I'm like, my first line, well, okay, yep, that's fine, I can do that. But when you say video elements, are you talking about a television commercial or are you talking about um some movement, some video elements for online social media? Which is fine, that wouldn't increase my rate, but if it's a television commercial, that's a whole other job. It's like, hang on a minute. 

I'm thinking to myself, surely they're not trying to get people in on a reduced um you know rate for a for a sports shoot, and then taking video footage of the day and using that as a television commercial within the same rate. I can't be doing that. Surely. So they came back and said, Oh, yeah, it's for a TVC. I'm like, Whoa, hang on. And and they they knew why I was asking. So it's for a TVC. Can you let us know your rate? Nice try. So I said, uh I said, here's my rate as confirmed for for usage of my phone of photos of me in the sports shoot for 12 months, okay, which they were fine with before. And you've got to put an end date, right? Otherwise they're using it forever. And here's my rate for television commercial. I mean, it's not, I'm not it's not a speaking role or anything, it's me running around, you know, being fit and flexible, whatever, in their product. And and and um, and here's my rate for that for usage of three months. Expect him to come back and go, look, what about this price for six months, or can we do 12, or can we discuss rollovers at a lower rate, or no, I'm out, I'm done, and I'm quite happy to walk away. Uh I missed the job. Um happy to walk away because for the amount of money that I had confirmed to date, to to do uh in-store, you know, point of sale and photos and and posters and things, plus um a television commercial with no end date for that reduced fee, it's just like no, forget about it. That's just taking the piss. And it's through um an agency. I mean, they know better, right? 

But the trouble is they pitch this idea. Um, the business, the marketing department will confirm the budget for that idea, and it's generally these days, you know, like a 360-degree campaign, they call it, where you're gonna be on outdoor posters, uh, point of sale in-stores, uh, social media campaigns to complement a television commercial, so it all sort of peppers at the same time, so they sort of get you everywhere, so to speak. And um, okay, this is not that, it's it's a bit of that. It's it's some online, some in-store, and a television commercial, so it's not bad. We're doing alright, we're just missing outdoor. Who knows? Maybe they're gonna do that too and not tell me. Um, but uh that's what happens, and they confirm the fee, and then they go into their pre-production phase and they show you know the sketches of what the television commercial will look like, or some proofs of what the what the you know what the posters could look like, and then they insert you know generic talent and say, here's what it's gonna sort of here's what the look and feel will be like, and we're on track, yep, done, moving forward, so they've already spent some money. And then it comes to the end of the line, we've actually got to shoot it. We've got everything approved, the concept, the script, and the script is not easy, right? Because although there might not be heaps of words, it's got to go through the committee, it's got to be in line with the brand, the marketing department's got to sign off, um, and um you know that generally takes a bit of time because it's you know script by committee. And then um you end up with uh um getting a production crew together, and the agencies generally have either in-house or on you know on tap, they've got their go-to's, and the practice crew will confirm the date and organize logistics, like you know, do we need a sound stage? Is it outdoor? We need to get permits, all this sort of stuff. So this is all happening, money's being spent, right? We're going. And then at the end of the line, it's we've got to get talent. And this is why you get notified of an opportunity, and it's generally we've got to cast it for tomorrow, and audition cutoff is two days' time, and we're shooting next week. Because you're at the end of the line, and that's okay, because that's that's what happens. You you can't cast talent before you know what the look and feel or the tone is gonna be like. Fair enough. But the end of the line, budget-wise, as well. So if it's a decent budget, chunky budget, you're gonna go through agencies and agents and that, and that's it's fine. 

But when you go through online platforms and agencies go through the right fit or star now, whatever it is, and that's fine, that's okay. Generally, it's because they're saving, paying an agent commission, they're they're you know, undercutting a little bit, um, and the rates aren't quite there. And I do know some agents who they look at star now and they'll pitch talent if they think they're gonna fit and the rate's right, and that's why I can relax a little bit when it's through my agent because they've done, they know um it's it's a job that's that's worthwhile, that's right. Um Fred's in the background wanting more attention. They know that um I I know when it's coming from the agent, it's it's it's gonna be okay. I don't have to filter it. I trust my agent, and uh we work well together for three years, but um I've obviously got to put in a bit more filter when it comes to me filtering stuff because there are so many opportunities where you you know the budget's limited at the end and they spend X amount and they've got to um get everything they want for like 800 bucks Australian for you know uh photo shoot four-hour call, which is also gonna have some filming for a television commercial, which is also gonna, you know, and if I don't say okay, 12-month end date, who knows when they can use stuff till, right? Uh and and then they'll just start taking the piss and adding more and more and more. And you'll see yourself on all these posters and ads and blah blah. And maybe they'll do it again if it's a successful campaign, they'll do it again the same time next year to get the same sales uplift that they had this year. As a sales guy, I respect that. That's what I would do. Finally, a marketing plan that resulted in a sales uplift, it's brilliant, it's great, execution was fantastic. We had a sales lift. What are we gonna do to beat that sales lift next year? Well, let's start with what we did last year. Um, but if you haven't put an end date, it's in perpetuity, it's forever, well, you're gonna see it again and again, and you're not gonna get any benefit from it, and you're gonna say, Well, that 800 bucks wasn't worth it when you consider all this stuff. But there's talent out there that that are happy to do it for that price, and they'll do it, and they don't realise that they're being taken advantage of in a respect, and the agency knows better, but they've got only you know 10 cents left of the bank account at the end of the line to get talent. 

So, you know, at this stage, you know, don't do free work, don't do contra stuff. It's all about the right job for me at the right time. Also remembering, you know, if it's a television commercial that's a low budget, it's gonna reflect on you, right? They're not gonna have all the elements there to make the ad look great as great as a as a big budget national campaign. So you've got to remember that too. At which stage in your career are you at? Do you want yourself represented in a certain light? Um, do you want a certain level of professional uh experience on set? Um, and and you've got to ask these questions. It's great to be in that position where you can be a bit picky for your image as an actor and also um you know to get the right work at the right time. Uh obviously, not all of us can afford financially to be in that position, but when you can, um it's important to consider. But even when you can't, like just ask yourself, what are they getting out of me? Is it right? Does it feel right? Does it pass the smell test? Is this does this smell off? Um are you gonna turn up and then they're gonna say, oh, by the way, we're also filming something for our internal company conference, and we're also want you to do some voiceover work as well and as well, and add and add and add and add and add, and it's like, well, hang on a minute, now you're just taking the piss. Um, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with asking, well, will this be used for six months or twelve months? Because my rate will vary. Um, and I've had times where a casting agent will say, you know, you're great profile, blah blah, can you do this? I'm like, Yeah, I can, but my rate would be X, not what you've advertised. And they've responded and gone, Yeah, I this quote, yeah, I knew you were out of our budget range, um, but I thought I would try. Um, thanks for letting us know. We'll keep you in mind, especially for future work, but um, unfortunately, the budget that we've got from the client just won't fit you at this stage. It's professional, they're not gonna go, oh my god, let's blacklist this guy. He said no. It's you're asking legitimate questions that any actor should ask, any agent will ask, if they're worth their salt. They should ask, um, you know, how much are we getting paid? What's the job? 

I even even like the hourly rate thing, okay. That like if you're if you're featured extra in a in a if you're not talking and you're sort of in the background a bit, okay, that could make sense for something. But like, you've worked hard to build a profile. You're working hard to maintain that profile by um you know working on your social media strategy, going to photo shoot, spending money on your own headshots, um, you know, your your website, you're you're like you're doing your best you can. You you're not gonna you're not gonna settle for for junk rates. You shouldn't settle for junk rates. Um, I don't have an hourly rate. I'll just be honest, I'll just put it out there, I don't have an hourly rate. Um, I know there's union advice in Australia for hourly rates. I just have a project rate. It's that simple. With my experience now, I can say for this corporate shoot, it's just an internal piece, it's for their induction. Um this is this is gonna be my rate for this based on the size of company, size of job, size of you know, how long you're gonna use it for. Um, you know, and you can say in perpetuity, okay, because their corporate induction is going to change over time. They're not going to be able to use the same footage. But anyway, that aside, um, this is going to be my rate for this project. Uh because interestingly, too, I battered away another opportunity um on voiceovers where they said, look, you know, we want you to to voice over three different scripts for our app. Um, so it's going to be uh in the app and also use online. Um, what's your rate? And I sent back a reasonable rate. Um, reasonable because you know, that obviously they're going to save that to hire a studio. They don't have to hire an audio engineer, they don't have to hire uh talent through an agent. It I I can do all of that. And I'll provide a reasonable fee for that. That's certainly significant savings on on doing the uh the the you know the above. But I I they've just come straight back and go, oh, that's that much for 130 words, it's too expensive. 

So me wanting to walk away and say thank you very much, but also educate a little bit. Um, yeah, appreciate thanks for the feedback. Uh I don't actually have a rate per word, it's per project. Um, but you know, thank you very much, Max. Signed off, walked away. Because um it depends on the project. Like 130 words for an app, 130 words voicing over um a television commercial, 130 words uh for uh you know, overdubbing a video for a corporate conference, 100 that like these are different rates. I'm not gonna charge the same rate per word. I saw something advertised on voices.com, you know, 92,000 words. Also um pronunciation in Spanish, and the the audition script reflected that. You know, there's some big words in there, some some some words they're gonna hook you, uh, and uh we want to check your pronunciation, and we also want to check your pronunciation of these these names. So um decent script. I looked at it and then I looked at the rate. And look, it's a it's a nice number, their their number, but when you work it out per word, it was less than one cent per word. And this is important in this respect because 92,000 words, you've got to work out how many hours that's gonna be, how many hours that's gonna be of you not just recording it, but also you've got to edit your breaths out and you know, format it a bit, a few different takes here and there, etc. So you can't just record and send. And so that takes a bit of time, you know. So for you know, one hour of finished audio might take you an hour and a half if you're if you know what you're doing, to to provide that, uh, if not longer. So you've got to be able to to be able to work out, you know, per word in some respects, like when it comes to long form, but it just you've got to use your gut and just understand that look, I'm not willing to sell out for less than a cent a word to do something that's gonna take me a long time because of the pronunciation issues, and you know. And you just get a feel for some clients where the the way they're positioning it and asking, you can tell later I haven't done this a lot, so you're probably gonna get lots of revisions coming back and forward, back and forward because the brief's not crystal clear because I don't write briefs all the time. That's something else to consider. So when I do have a voiceover project, it's here's the rate for this project, and that includes a couple of revisions. 

Um, in fact, being open and transparent, if if any further revisions are needed in ab in addition to those two, it'll be $25 per revision or whatever, you know, depending. Um, and you know, that's how I roll. I'm open, I'm transparent. Uh uh, everyone can see this is the rate for this amount of time for this project, and it's working for me, like the amount of work I I've done last year. You know, I haven't changed my mindset. It's been great. But you know, kicking off this year, I'm busy, but I'm also banning away some of the bullshit. So I encourage you to stand strong and if it doesn't pass a sniff test, phone a friend, you know, take your time. So if it's on the phone, listen, um uh I just need to to have to have a look at it or have a think about this. Um, I'll give you a call back in an hour. I'll give you a call back, you know, because uh the world moves pretty quick in our world, right? I'll give you a call back in 20 minutes. Um do some Googling. Um talk to people, talk to your agent if you can. Get some advice. Alright. I'll I'll tell you what, this is turning into a bit of a pet peeve because I've kicked off with um the bullshit ads asking for you to work for nothing. Um, but now I'm gonna kick off with another pet peeve. It's actors coming up to me going, what microphone do you use? I want to do voiceovers. What mic, what mic do you use? They're not saying, you know, look, I don't have radio or or voiceover experience. Um, what skills do I need? Or what training do you do you think I should should do? Um, or do you know a good voice coach? It's always, it's always um, oh what mic do you use? And look, I I tell them this is what I use, blah blah blah. And um and and you know, this is how I well how do you plug that into the computer? Well, I use an interface, but like like look, guys, it's not as simple as that. Do I come up and say, I want to be an actor, what script? Give me a script, I'll be an actor. It's not it doesn't work like that. 

There's so much more to it. You can't just plug in and play, okay? You're either gonna end up on Fiverr um auditioning the hell out of stuff and not getting much work, or you're gonna end up on a professional platform with professional voiceovers getting professional rates. Even better, you're going to be able to walk up to a voice agent and say, Here's my body of work, here's my website, here's my professional uh demos. Um, you know, have you got space for a voice like me? You know, you can't just buy a microphone and be that person. It's not that easy, it's not that simple. Um, so if you're interested in voiceovers, that's great. I don't know where they're coming from. It's like, look, I see what you're doing. You're an actor, you've diversified, you're doing voiceovers, that's great. I see lots of actors who can do voiceovers, that's fantastic. And there's money to be made in voiceovers, and just like acting, they see only the successes, not all the all the steps that you've got to crawl through to to get there. And it's like, well, I need to supplement my income. I can do that, that sounds like fun, I could do it from home. What mic do I need? Plug it in and let's go. It's just have a think about it. Um, there's a bit more to it. Um so it's the start of 2021. Um what's my plan? I'm starting to form form a rough plan for the year. Um which is important. I think it's time for us all to take a check and go as actors, like what worked last year, what didn't work, what was fun, what wasn't fun, and and go this year, here are some of my goals. For me, um, and it is a rough plan because you know the phone could ring and you go to an audition and your world changes, but uh I I a couple of workshops. I want to lock in a couple of workshops this year, and I want to do something different to what I've done before. Uh I only do two workshops a year. There's always plenty of people wanting to take your money as an actor, right? Come on. There's plenty of there's I think there's more acting coaches in Sydney than there are actual actors. I know I've said that before in this program. Um I want to do a couple of workshops, I think probably with some established schools that have a decent reputation. 

Short courses, because I can't look, you know, I'd love to dedicate three years to doing a degree in in acting with top schools and you know, work really hard to go through that audition process and like to think that you know I'd be able to get there. But I can't I can't not work for three. Years. I'm getting work. And I'm enjoying work. I'm learning from my work and it's getting me more work. So I can't say no and step out of the industry for three years to dedicate myself, which I know that's the dedication it would take for me to really take a an acting degree, uh college, you know, course seriously. So look, I want to do a couple of workshops where I can go in and use some of the expertise in these schools, um, work hard in an environment where there's maybe six or seven other people only, and in a few days, in a few weeks, whatever it is, come out feeling better for it. So I want to do a couple of those. So my ears are up, looking for opportunities for that. I don't like casting director workshops. I'm just gonna say it. Uh, they've cropped up a lot, they were really kicking off two years ago now. It's like they're all doing it. Look, I absolutely agree. Come and, you know, we're you know, there might be a a 12-month course for actors, and and you know, there's a there's a there's a there's an element of the course where a casting director comes in and provides some some wisdom from their perspective. Look, I think, you know, acting is a business, and any acting school should appreciate that, and any good actor should appreciate that. You know, you'd love to be able to dedicate your 100% of your time to your craft, and um, but it doesn't work that way. It's a business, and you've got to be a you know a marketing manager sometimes, a financial coach other times. Um, you can't just be an actor who acts anymore, even when you have a great agent. Certainly as you're up and coming. But do casting director workshops, I mean, look at the end of the day, they're paid to come in and advise, you know, the production team around and you know, talk to the director about the tone of whatever the pieces they're they're casting for, and and and they've probably got some names already, and and depending on the budget and and then uh you know supporting cast, you know, what they're looking for, and then go out and sort of reach out and cast for that. They're not gonna go, oh, so and so in an acting course years ago fits a brief, I'll just go straight there. Um it's it's it's more like because I know some actors of some mates of mine who uh keep paying for these courses and they're not cheap, going, Well, I want to be in front of this caster so they'll remember me. 

It's like, well, shit, by the amount of courses alone that they do before even casting, the amount of faces they see, uh, the amount of faces they see in workshops, you know, I I don't know, but uh they're also going to be focused on the brief at hand um and what fits who fits the brief. And also in the workshops, they generally flow as they'll give you a few scripts, you come in and and as as an audition, you know, and they'll tell you what they think they they they wanted or uh what they wanted for that, what they wanted to see, and and as opposed to what you delivered. And I think they're great at saying that, but it's they won't be able to tell you how to get there. They're not actors. They're not acting coaches. Um they've got a job to do, it's quite specific, and they do it well, one hopes, and and and um look, you know, maybe that's controversial, but they'll they'll they'll see what you've provided, they'll see what you've turned up with and what you've what you've put forward as you've seen, and tell you what they want and what they what other styles they could they would have wanted. But as a casting director, like they can't really tell you how, as you, as Max as as an actor, with 20 years of corporate experience, coming back to acting, plenty of corporate shoots, trying more for scripted drama. Look, I get where you're going with this. Here's what what I would have liked to have seen as a as a more of an option, and here's how you could have got there. If you'd have changed your mindset to this, and and and uh you know, like it it's just it's a whole different mindset, it's a whole different game. So I'm not gonna I'm not gonna pay for that. I'll put that on the back burner totally. Um if I win the lottery and I can pay for plenty of workshops in a year, and I've got the time to do it, maybe, but no. The other thing I want to work on this year is British accent. It's been about US accent for quite some time, particularly for Australian actors, and even I know some actors in America going back to ADR to do uh standard American over ADR. Uh, but look, and in Canada obviously, and you know, but I think particularly how the world has shifted um as a as an as a business. Obviously, as I speak, LA's in another hard lockdown, and production has stopped completely today. 

Uh at the moment, Canada has had a certainly a resurgence in in American productions, and Australia, we've got a lot of productions coming to Australia. Um so obviously, and and there's no patience for oh, great guy for the role. Can absolutely see him playing this character. Oh, well we'll we'll spend some time working with him on polishing the accent. No way, they want you to ready to go. You know, great if you've worked really hard to get the great accent, but that just puts you in the same place as Americans. Um, it's not a special gift, it's like it's a requirement. So I want to work on uh not just maintaining because obviously, you know, do a course, well done, get a voice coach, great, but you've got to maintain it. Uh so maintaining the US, but also work on British. I mean, look, it guys, it just gives you more options, right? You could get a call next week. Um, and they require an accent, and I'd hate to be that person who says, Oh, yes, but not really. Um 2021, it's starting off strong. Um it's starting off strong. I'm I'm working tomorrow on a corporate shoot, all about uh it's pretty straightforward. You know, me in a creative space with someone else, and you know, it's all about how they can. So 2020, starting off strong, really excited. Um next episode, we're going to have an interview with a psychologist who's also an actor and obviously as a result specializes in um psychology of actors and helping actors. So it'll be great to tap in and see, you know, what what are what are actors coming to to you with the most concerns about needing the help the most on? Um why is that? And also when is the right time to put your hand up and go, like, my self-care strategy is out the window, I don't think I'm coping. Help. When when is that moment? Because it's easy to see when you're not in it, but when you're in it and you're not feeling 100%, it might not be as easy to say, okay, my coping isn't good, I might need some help now. So I'm looking forward to to tapping his brain, and um again, another way to help you guys. So make sure you subscribe, make sure you stay in touch. Uh, we've got those, and it's another way to help you guys as well. So make sure you subscribe on whatever podcast platform you're listening to. Subscribe on YouTube, follow us on social media for more great engagement, and um, we'll look forward to talking with you next week. Bye.